Hello All,
I was comparing rates for broadband internet for downloading linux distro isos and find that over a period of one year, the rates are still high, compared to the number of cds/dvds that can be downloaded. For example a 600/- per month NU plan becomes 7200/- per year. How many CDs or DVDs would a person actually download in one year for 7200/-? Plus, many places in India, Asia as well as Africa are still undeveloped and broadband is not available.
The World Space satellite radio is a technology that was meant to spread radio to the whole of Asia and Africa. The receivers now start at a Rs. 1500/- one time investment.
So can the world Linux community come together and launch its own satellite with multiple channels, each channel representing a linux brand, like Debian, Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Gentoo etc. The downloads will be in the form of serial broadcasts in the form of a programme schedule. A timer in the receiver records the ISO download at that time. A mini HDD inside the receiver can record the data. This helps those who don't have facilities to mount antennas or don't face the satt. They can take the receiver and antenna outside, download and then come back in to transfer it to their pcs. At high one way speeds, downloads should be very fast. The entire service should be free of cost to download.
How much would such a satellite cost and which country has the minimum taxes for such a launch? The entire linux community could contribute for this, along with donations from big distro companies and some Govts. It should last us for 15 years. Technically what would be the maximum download speed available for one way broadcasts?
Regards,
Rony.
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On Sunday 25 February 2007 21:10, Rony wrote:
The World Space satellite radio is a technology that was meant to spread radio to the whole of Asia and Africa. The receivers now start at a Rs. 1500/- one time investment.
So can the world Linux community come together and launch its own satellite with multiple channels,
Amateur radio enthusiasts did send up their satellite. http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/index.php Even at these astronomical costs the dn bw is 9600 bps. Completely unsuitable for downloading isos.
A "better" alternative is to talk mtnl /bsnl into providing a download server with free downloads from the server. The poor connectivity problem cannot be solved by satellite without hughe subsidy. And the same subsidy would be better used by conventional methods.
each channel representing a linux
U already have dishtv and cable tv doing exactly this. The wire doesnt care what u send.
brand, like Debian, Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Gentoo etc. The downloads will be in the form of serial broadcasts in the form of a programme schedule. A timer in the receiver records the ISO download at that time. A mini HDD inside the receiver can record the data. This helps those who don't have facilities to mount antennas or don't face the satt.
You always have to face the sat.
jtd wrote:
Amateur radio enthusiasts did send up their satellite. http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/index.php Even at these astronomical costs the dn bw is 9600 bps. Completely unsuitable for downloading isos.
But aren't the internet satts. as well as voip satts. giving high bandwidths in Mbps? And we would only need one way download broadcast, like regular tv programmes. For eg. 0600 to 0700 Debian Etch. 0700 to 0800 Debian Sarge on the Debian channel. 0600 to 0700 Fedora 6. 0700 to 0800 Fedora 5 on the Fedora channel.
There are 20 million linux users. If even half of them pay 10$ ( Rs. 500/-) each, we get 100 Million $. Add to that donations and sponsors from big Linux companies and some organizations.
Regards,
Rony.
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Amateur radio enthusiasts did send up their satellite. http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/index.php Even at these astronomical costs the dn bw is 9600 bps. Completely unsuitable for downloading isos.
But aren't the internet satts. as well as voip satts. giving high bandwidths in Mbps? And we would only need one way download broadcast, like regular tv programmes. For eg. 0600 to 0700 Debian Etch. 0700 to 0800 Debian Sarge on the Debian channel. 0600 to 0700 Fedora 6. 0700 to 0800 Fedora 5 on the Fedora channel.
There are 20 million linux users. If even half of them pay 10$ ( Rs. 500/-) each, we get 100 Million $. Add to that donations and sponsors from big Linux companies and some organizations.
The idea is really good but is it affordable
Dilip Khanolkar wrote:
There are 20 million linux users. If even half of them pay 10$ ( Rs. 500/-) each, we get 100 Million $. Add to that donations and sponsors from big Linux companies and some organizations.
The idea is really good but is it affordable
If it gets going through donations and sponsorship then it can be dedicated to the people for free downloads for 15 years. It will reach every corner of Asia and Africa irrespective of local technological roadblocks. The only one time cost is for buying the receiver equipment. For schools and village panchayats, these can be sponsored by organizations. The receivers can run on batteries in powerless areas.
The main problem is what technology and protocol to use for Satt. broadcasts. The frequency should be very high so that dish size is very small. A rough comparison with DTH is that DTH delivers a 5 MHz. TV signal per channel in compressed digital format. So it is a rough equivalent of 5 Mbps per channel. If we can push it to 8 Mbps, it is a 1 MByte/second download. So 1 hour gives 3600 MB of data. One DTH satt. can have 200 + channels.
Regards,
Rony.
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On 2/26/07, Rony ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Dilip Khanolkar wrote:
There are 20 million linux users. If even half of them pay 10$ ( Rs. 500/-) each, we get 100 Million $. Add to that donations and sponsors from big Linux companies and some organizations.
The idea is really good but is it affordable
If it gets going through donations and sponsorship then it can be dedicated to the people for free downloads for 15 years. It will reach every corner of Asia and Africa irrespective of local technological roadblocks. The only one time cost is for buying the receiver equipment.
Good idea Rony. But to sustain a satellite for 15 years you need to pay anual maintainance fee to some agency. How do you plan to arrange that fee ?
regards VK
Sometime on Tuesday 06 March 2007 07:16, vivek khurana said:
Good idea Rony. But to sustain a satellite for 15 years you need to pay anual maintainance fee to some agency. How do you plan to arrange that fee
That money can be used to implement content distribution using IP-over-Boeing-737 and IP-over-Courier/Postal instead, and it will still be cheaper.
Anurag
Anurag wrote:
Sometime on Tuesday 06 March 2007 07:16, vivek khurana said:
Good idea Rony. But to sustain a satellite for 15 years you need to pay anual maintainance fee to some agency. How do you plan to arrange that fee
That money can be used to implement content distribution using IP-over-Boeing-737 and IP-over-Courier/Postal instead, and it will still be cheaper.
Star, Zee, Sony and other broadcasters should send us plane loads of CDs and DVDs of their programmes every month instead of satellite transmission. ;) World Space Radio should follow suit. The Boeing-737 can have a small opening in its belly so that the packages can be dropped over our buildings while the plane is in flight itself.
BTW, world space was created with the intention of reaching out all the inaccessible areas of Asia and Africa. They started with free transmission for some years.
The big distro players can make the Linux Download Satellite possible. Mark Shuttleworth has also been a space tourist.
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:56:05 +0530, Rony ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Star, Zee, Sony and other broadcasters should send us plane loads of CDs and DVDs of their programmes every month instead of satellite transmission. ;)
Compare the numbers of how many users watch Zee, Sony , etc.. to how many will download Linux CDs. so you cant use this as analogy . Your worldspace analogy hold right though.
Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:56:05 +0530, Rony ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Star, Zee, Sony and other broadcasters should send us plane loads of CDs and DVDs of their programmes every month instead of satellite transmission. ;)
Compare the numbers of how many users watch Zee, Sony , etc.. to how many will download Linux CDs. so you cant use this as analogy . Your worldspace analogy hold right though.
We need not have an exclusive satellite. We could piggyback on communication satellites.
Sometime on Tuesday 06 March 2007 16:56, Rony said:
Star, Zee, Sony and other broadcasters should send us plane loads of CDs and DVDs of their programmes every month instead of satellite transmission. ;) World Space Radio should follow suit. The Boeing-737 can have a small opening in its belly so that the packages can be dropped over our buildings while the plane is in flight itself.
No, i don't mean broadcasting like TV channels. In a data transmission, the file has to be transferred over the carrier, and transmitted _completely_ for the file to be of any use. If air frieght+courier method can transmit several terabytes of data within couple of days then its very economical.
Anurag
Anurag wrote:
Sometime on Tuesday 06 March 2007 16:56, Rony said:
Star, Zee, Sony and other broadcasters should send us plane loads of CDs and DVDs of their programmes every month instead of satellite transmission. ;) World Space Radio should follow suit. The Boeing-737 can have a small opening in its belly so that the packages can be dropped over our buildings while the plane is in flight itself.
No, i don't mean broadcasting like TV channels. In a data transmission, the file has to be transferred over the carrier, and transmitted _completely_ for the file to be of any use. If air frieght+courier method can transmit several terabytes of data within couple of days then its very economical.
But you don't have the choice of any distro.
On 06-Mar-07, at 4:56 PM, Rony wrote:
The big distro players can make the Linux Download Satellite possible. Mark Shuttleworth has also been a space tourist.
rony i am convinced i hereby pledge 2 paise towards the satellite cost
rony i am convinced i hereby pledge 2 paise towards the satellite cost
Add my another 2 and make it 4. Please discuss some practical ideas, rather than wasting bandwidth on hypothetical theory. This list already had full quota of hypothetical theory in past.
Warm Regards,
Mukund Deshmukh, Beta Computronics Pvt Ltd. 10/1 IT Park, Parsodi, Nagpur -440022 India. Web site - http://betacomp.com
Add my another 2 and make it 4. Please discuss some practical ideas, rather than wasting bandwidth on hypothetical theory.
This list already had full quota of hypothetical theory in past.
Hmm... i would agree with you about the building a satellite bit, but doing something for getting ISO's over a satellite transmission does seem like a cool thing to do. Who knows, NASA runs Debian on some of its space shuttles, they wouldn't mind an apt-get update(from a MISSION CRITICAL repository of course) in the near future :-)
The interesting thing is, this would REALLY RE-DEFINE the terms Universe Repository and Multiverse Repository :D
Regards,
- vihan
Vihan Pandey wrote:
Hmm... i would agree with you about the building a satellite bit, but doing something for getting ISO's over a satellite transmission does seem like a cool thing to do. Who knows, NASA runs Debian on some of its space shuttles, they wouldn't mind an apt-get update(from a MISSION CRITICAL repository of course) in the near future :-)
The interesting thing is, this would REALLY RE-DEFINE the terms Universe Repository and Multiverse Repository :D
The most important part is how to modify or build from scratch, the DTH type transmission method to belt out Linux ISOs as single files or as a list of packages that will be assembled into an ISO file in the receiver. The upload part can be a two way IP type communication as its only between the ground station and the bird. A hard disk on the bird can hold one week's data, so upload will only be once a week. We only need to think how to get data broadcasted.
The use of DTH is preferred because its receiving dish size can be made very small due to very high frequencies.
Guys, can we do some brain storming to come up with transmission ideas?
On 3/6/07, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
rony i am convinced i hereby pledge 2 paise towards the satellite cost
What!! You are convinced !!! So, on this rare occasion atleast pledge 2 rupees ;-)
regards VK
On 06-Mar-07, at 9:22 PM, vivek khurana wrote:
rony i am convinced i hereby pledge 2 paise towards the satellite cost
What!! You are convinced !!! So, on this rare occasion atleast pledge 2 rupees ;-)
ok, if you agree to extend me a longterm low interest loan for 1.96 rupees
vivek khurana wrote:
On 2/26/07, Rony ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Dilip Khanolkar wrote:
There are 20 million linux users. If even half of them pay 10$ ( Rs. 500/-) each, we get 100 Million $. Add to that donations and sponsors from big Linux companies and some organizations.
The idea is really good but is it affordable
If it gets going through donations and sponsorship then it can be dedicated to the people for free downloads for 15 years. It will reach every corner of Asia and Africa irrespective of local technological roadblocks. The only one time cost is for buying the receiver equipment.
Good idea Rony. But to sustain a satellite for 15 years you need to pay anual maintainance fee to some agency. How do you plan to arrange that fee ?
Right now the most important part is to get the technology possible.
On 26/02/07 21:40 +0530, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
Amateur radio enthusiasts did send up their satellite. http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/index.php Even at these astronomical costs the dn bw is 9600 bps. Completely unsuitable for downloading isos.
But aren't the internet satts. as well as voip satts. giving high bandwidths in Mbps? And we would only need one way download broadcast,
Uh? No. IP traffic is two way. Even consumer grade broadband over satellite requires you to have one end on dialup, and some software to do a bunch of NAT/routing.
Devdas Bhagat
Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 26/02/07 21:40 +0530, Rony wrote:
But aren't the internet satts. as well as voip satts. giving high bandwidths in Mbps? And we would only need one way download broadcast,
Uh? No. IP traffic is two way. Even consumer grade broadband over satellite requires you to have one end on dialup, and some software to do a bunch of NAT/routing.
Can we eliminate IP? Is there a protocol that can send files as a one way broadcast? Just as we get streaming digital video on our DTH.
Regards,
Rony.
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On 27/02/07 13:52 +0530, Rony wrote: <snip>
Can we eliminate IP? Is there a protocol that can send files as a one way broadcast? Just as we get streaming digital video on our DTH.
It's called the postal department. I believe Canonical used this method for quite some time, I don't know if they still do.
Devdas Bhagat
Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 27/02/07 13:52 +0530, Rony wrote:
<snip> > Can we eliminate IP? Is there a protocol that can send files as a one > way broadcast? Just as we get streaming digital video on our DTH. > It's called the postal department. I believe Canonical used this method for quite some time, I don't know if they still do.
Thanks. I am googling for it but cannot get it. Is there any official name for it?
Regards,
Rony.
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Sometime on Tuesday 27 February 2007 16:44, Rony said:
Can we eliminate IP? Is there a protocol that can send files as a one way broadcast? Just as we get streaming digital video on our DTH.
It's called the postal department. I believe Canonical used this method for quite some time, I don't know if they still do.
Thanks. I am googling for it but cannot get it. Is there any official name for it?
He means IP over Post/Courier. Specific name would be ``Ubuntu Shipit''. They transmit several PetaBytes of data all over the world at very cheap costs i believe.
Anurag
Anurag wrote:
Sometime on Tuesday 27 February 2007 16:44, Rony said:
Can we eliminate IP? Is there a protocol that can send files as a one way broadcast? Just as we get streaming digital video on our DTH.
It's called the postal department. I believe Canonical used this method for quite some time, I don't know if they still do.
Thanks. I am googling for it but cannot get it. Is there any official name for it?
He means IP over Post/Courier. Specific name would be ``Ubuntu Shipit''. They transmit several PetaBytes of data all over the world at very cheap costs i believe.
HeHe! And I was googling for postal dept. protocol, postal dept. broadcast protocol. But on a serious note, a lot of research work is being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
Regards,
Rony.
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On 27/02/07 20:16 +0530, Rony wrote: <snip>
HeHe! And I was googling for postal dept. protocol, postal dept. broadcast protocol. But on a serious note, a lot of research work is
To paraphrase Dijkstra, 'Never underestimate the bandwidth of a Boeing 747 full of DVDs'.
being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
This is not a general technology list. Technical questions related to FOSS are generally handled quickly, the philosophical ones aren't.
Devdas Bhagat
Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 27/02/07 20:16 +0530, Rony wrote:
being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
This is not a general technology list. Technical questions related to FOSS are generally handled quickly, the philosophical ones aren't.
I thought Linux was FOSS.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Wednesday 28 February 2007 12:50 AM, Rony cobbled together some glyphs to say:
being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
This is not a general technology list. Technical questions related to FOSS are generally handled quickly, the philosophical ones aren't.
I thought Linux was FOSS.
True, but is has nothing to do with launching satellites, etc.
Regards, BG
- -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose@ubuntu.com Ubuntu -- Linux for Human Beings http://www.ubuntu.com/
1024D/86361B74 BB2C E244 15AD 05C5 523A 90E7 4249 3494 8636 1B74
Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 12:50 AM, Rony cobbled together some glyphs to say:
being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
This is not a general technology list. Technical questions related to FOSS are generally handled quickly, the philosophical ones aren't.
I thought Linux was FOSS.
True, but is has nothing to do with launching satellites, etc.
The discussion was on possible transmission protocols for uni-directional Linux file broadcast. Satellite is only the medium.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
On 28/02/07 20:13 +0530, Rony wrote: <snip>
The discussion was on possible transmission protocols for uni-directional Linux file broadcast. Satellite is only the medium.
s/Linux file/large files/. Just because you mention Linux does not imply that it is a relevant topic.
Devdas Bhagat
On 28-Feb-07, at 12:50 AM, Rony wrote:
being carried out on transmission protocols. Unfortunately its all happening abroad. Even on this list there is little participation in technological discussions.
This is not a general technology list. Technical questions related to FOSS are generally handled quickly, the philosophical ones aren't.
I thought Linux was FOSS.
better practice GNU/Linux or the boys in green will get at you
Vihan Pandey wrote:
better practice GNU/Linux or the boys in green will get at you
:-) Personally i prefer Blue.
My favorite colour. ( Blue )
Kenneth's note reminded me of the time you had set off the hot discussion on using .odt instead of .doc and I silenlty and sheepishly switched over to .odt as I was still using doc then. Now everyone in my family is using odt.
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On Wednesday 28 February 2007 11:49 PM, gaurav chaturvedi cobbled together some glyphs to say:
Hi, With your idea Rony all the ISOs will be downloaded within a week....What then?
May be free CD distribution in BEST buses ?
Regards, BG
- -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose@ubuntu.com Ubuntu -- Linux for Human Beings http://www.ubuntu.com/
1024D/86361B74 BB2C E244 15AD 05C5 523A 90E7 4249 3494 8636 1B74
gaurav chaturvedi wrote:
Hi, With your idea Rony all the ISOs will be downloaded within a week....What then?
Hi. Within an hour or few, cd or dvd. At no cost of monthly rent that one has to pay normally for broadband. Get the latest of any distro and enjoy using it, anywhere you are located in Asia or Africa, even where there is no power or internet. :)
On 01-Mar-07, at 11:19 AM, Rony wrote:
Hi. Within an hour or few, cd or dvd. At no cost of monthly rent that one has to pay normally for broadband. Get the latest of any distro and enjoy using it, anywhere you are located in Asia or Africa, even where there is no power or internet. :)
what hardware/software do you need to download?
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 01-Mar-07, at 11:19 AM, Rony wrote:
Hi. Within an hour or few, cd or dvd. At no cost of monthly rent that one has to pay normally for broadband. Get the latest of any distro and enjoy using it, anywhere you are located in Asia or Africa, even where there is no power or internet. :)
what hardware/software do you need to download?
A satellite dish and a receiver made for this purpose. It could have an in-built hard disk/flash drive to store downloaded isos.
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Anurag -
Baishampayan Ghose -
Devdas Bhagat -
Dilip Khanolkar -
gaurav chaturvedi -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Laxminarayan G Kamath A -
Mukund Deshmukh -
Rony -
Vihan Pandey -
vivek khurana