Dear Luggers......
yesterday after consultation with dr.nagarjun i hav mailed u a modified version of the draft proposed by Mr.lakdawala of fsf india. The draft according to him proposes to take Free SOftware to the masses by introducing the concept of Free SOftware in all the schools and colleges all around india.
We second this opinion of his and i would like to personally thank him for putting down the proposal in such a neat format for others to make use of.
From the perspective of the lug, we would like to propogate/market Free Software and also make it our aim to introduce Gnu/Linux to the various budding students all over india. Thus in this initiative of our i would like to start with all the Engineering Colleges in and around bbay and Maharashtra.
Just recently we concluded a very very FRUITFUL trip to Rajaram Bapu College Of Engineering, Kolhapur which saw the Dr.Nagarjun nd the others delivering 3 quality dayz of trainin nd introduction on Free SOftware and Linux to 70 buddin engineers......soem of whom hav even joined the ILUG-BOM mailin list.
For the 1st workshop, i spent close to 6000/- from my pocket which later was re-imbursed by the college authorities. I tool this liberty since i knew the college management personally.
I know the comercial part out here is tricky......nd the lug has had a bad xperience leavin it with a sour taste in it's mouth. But if i am goin to co-ordiante these workshops on a routine basis i expect some financial support and backing.
After pondering abt it for sometime, dr. nagarjun suggested that we could dash the feelers/letter to the various colleges all over bombay,Maharashtra nd after havin comfirmed dates in hand abt the event propose to the FSF abt our initiative. FSF then agress to sanction some funds for us to further the cause and we carry out the preps.
I further would like to mention another of dr.nags suggestion. We could also conduct a few commercial workshops asap and garner some funds enough for us to continue with our cause in spreading the word of Free SOftware......Nd this time around we'l take the precautions to prevent us burnin our fingers the way we did last time.
Pliss enlist ur comments...so that we can hav a final letter drafted and a core set of volunteers i can bank upon for logistics, event management and speakers for the workshops.
Last time dinesh, parag, navin had volutneerd to come along.......Letz get kickin and get the ground work done.
Trevor Warren
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luggers......
pliss refer to the letter as attached.......
***************************8
Hiyee Luggers,
There should be no doubt that the most important places where free software should be advocated and propagated are schools and colleges. Instead of trying to wean away people at a later stage when they are used to or worse, addicted to proprietary software, we must educate people about free software when their exposure to proprietary software is minimal and when they are most amenable to absorbing progressive ideas and beliefs.
The long term goal of FSF-I/LUG's should of course be to ensure that the school and college syllabi are free of all proprietary software and that students are introduced at an early stage to the simple philosophy of free software. This would require petitioning the various bodies responsible for framing these syllabi and that involves going through a labyrinth of bureaucratic red tape. This obviously is not an easy goal to achieve although we must make a start on this front sooner rather than later.
In the mean time, we can involve ourselves in a more grass roots approach of contacting individual schools and colleges and requesting them to arrange talks on free software to be given by local volunteers of FSF-I/LUG's. This approach has no major bureaucratic hurdles, except perhaps for the convincing of individual principals or head masters, and promises the immediate benefit of more and more young and impressionable minds getting exposed to the simple philosophy of free software.
Here's a draft plan:
Volunteers in each town/city/suburb should compile a list of schools where they could go and give a talk on free software and submit this list to FSF-I/LUG's. FSF-I/LUG's should then in turn send request letters to these schools, including the contact details of the particular volunteers whom the school should contact for scheduling the talk.
A preliminary draft of the request letter follows:
To, The Principal name and address of school
Dear sir or madam,
Sub: A request for arranging a talk on Free Software and conducting a workshop on GNU/Linux in your institution.
The Free Software Foundation of India FSF-I and the LUG ( Linux Users Group ), is a non-profit organisation formed for the purpose of advocating and propagating the use and development of Free Software in India. Please see the enclosed literature for an explanation of and a brief introduction to Free Software. Please also visit our website at www.fsf.org.in and http://www.ilug-bom.org.in, for further information on our activities and goals.
As part of our efforts to spread awareness and educate people about Free Software and Gnu/Linux, we have started a program of holding talks in schools and colleges and technical institutions, with the aim of exposing youngsters to the simple philosophy behind Free Software and educating them aboutthe moral, ethical, and practical advantages of using and developing Free Software along with a 2-3 workshop on basics of GNU/Linux from the perspective of enhancing the students technical vocabulary.
We believe that this exposure is important for all students who have any interest or connection with computers and computer software, as it will enable them to make a more informed choice, based on virtues other than mere technical and marketing facts, when the time comes for them to choose which software to study, use, buy or develop.
Sir / madam, we hereby request you to arrange for such a talk to be given in your institution by one or more local volunteers of our organisation. The names and contact details of the volunteers with whom you can discuss the schedule of the talk are as follows:
1. volunteer name and contact details 2. volunteer name and contact details
We propose addressing this talk to students of classes SE,TE and BE. However, we leave the actual composition of the target audience entirely up to your discretion and judgment depending on the current level of exposure of your students to computers and computer software.
You may please distribute the enclosed literature on Free Software/Linux among the intended audience as a preparatory step in advance of the talk.
Thank you very much for your cooperation and time.
Yours sincerely, Sd. for Free Software Foundation of India & Linux User Group of Bombay
*************************************
This letter has been framed by "Khuzaima A. Lakdawala", and i owe him due for every word and idea in here. Just that i have modified parts to include the LUG and Linux as part of our overall agenda.
**********************
Trevor Warren
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From: "Trevor Warren" trevorwarren@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:10 PM
There should be no doubt that the most important places where free software should be advocated and propagated are schools and colleges. Instead of trying to wean away people at a later stage when they are used to or worse, addicted to proprietary software, we must educate people about free software when their exposure to proprietary software is minimal and when they are most amenable to absorbing progressive ideas and beliefs.
I think this a harsh remark on proprietary software. I guess the gist of the discussion is proprietary software == bad free software == good
The facts: (CT Sept .2001) 1.Indian IT market share $23.1 billion. growth rate 31.6% 2.Indian nationals employed in IT and telecom in US: 250,000 3.Indians in Microsoft in R&D : 32% 4.Q1 revenue due to software in 2001-2002 : 8,600 crores with growth rate of 52 % !!!
Could this have been possible without "proprietary stuff" ?
If a kid says Hey I wanna make money with coding. Should we say: no way? With India earning so much from software exports I really think that kids in schools should be given the right information. Sometimes money also is a stimulus for some brains. It is a fact we can't deny. .
The long term goal of FSF-I/LUG's should of course be to ensure that the school and college syllabi are free of all proprietary software and
I'm skeptical. Let's take an example. TYBcom. people have an optional comp subj. One of my friends has opted for excel and foxpro. Let's face it : Microsoft Office is the most popular and most widely used software in businesses. Now suppose that varsity changes the syllabus to exclude the proprietary stuff. Will the students be well equipped to compete with other students who have had an hands-on experience with the proprietary software?
With the widespread use of proprietary software like Microsoft Windows , Adobe PhotoShop, AutoCad,Corel,MS Office, foxpro,.... etc. I really don't think excluding it from the syllabus will be a wise decision.
Proprietary software and free software will co-exist.
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On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 06:50:23PM +0530, Nikhil Joshi wrote:
From: "Trevor Warren" trevorwarren@yahoo.com
There should be no doubt that the most important places where free software should be advocated and propagated are schools and colleges. Instead of trying to wean away people at a later stage when they are used to or worse, addicted to proprietary software, we must educate people about free software when their exposure to proprietary software is minimal and when they are most amenable to absorbing progressive ideas and beliefs.
I think this a harsh remark on proprietary software. I guess the gist of the discussion is proprietary software == bad free software == good The facts: (CT Sept .2001) 1.Indian IT market share $23.1 billion. growth rate 31.6% 2.Indian nationals employed in IT and telecom in US: 250,000 3.Indians in Microsoft in R&D : 32% 4.Q1 revenue due to software in 2001-2002 : 8,600 crores with growthrate of 52 % !!!
Could this have been possible without "proprietary stuff" ? If a kid says Hey I wanna make money with coding. Should we say: no way?
Obviously proprietary software can generate more money than free software. No one is disputing that. The question you need to think about is whether proprietary software is good for Indian society and good for global society. If money is our only measure then we should willing donate our organs for for cash, no?
Mr. Stallman has written many essays which explain why proprietary software is bad for society. Please see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html.
Obviously proprietary software can generate more money than free software. No one is disputing that. The question you need to think about is whether proprietary software is good for Indian society and good for global
society.
If money is our only measure then we should willing donate our organs for for cash, no?
Tell me if a company like Peutronics, make there flagship software Tally OpenSource or Free, are they to gain more or lose more.
Gain in terms of ofcourse MONEY. Lose in terms of __ ___ __ everything.
=== === ===
GPL is taking court action against a violator. The FSF is taking legal action against "Progress Software Corp." who attempted to ship a binary of "Gemini" -- a mysql storage module without providing sources. Progress Software sells a CDROM called NuSphere MySQL Advantage. This contains various applications like Apache, PHP and MySQL.
As a very important part of HA database services and crash recovery, Gemini is very popular. But the source code is under wraps . ie A GPL violation by Progress Software.
The question is not about GPL standing for trial, but the point about MySQL AB selling ``dual licensed'' editions and Progress Software not being allowed. IMHO GPL will win !
[-SNIP-] EBEN MOGLEN's Affidavit :
19-a.. Redistribution must itself occur under GPL and only GPL, with no additional license conditions. (See Exhibit B, §2(b)); 19-b.. Redistribution must include ``source code,'' the human-readable form of computer programs that allows programmers to understand and modify computer programs for themselves, as opposed to ``object code,'' which is the ``machine language'' version of computer programs that is very difficult for programmers to understand or modify
19-c.. Redistribution must include a copy of the GPL, so that users are aware of their rights to use, copy, modify and distribute, and so that anyone engaged in redistribution is also aware of the conditions under which redistribution is permitted. ...... 35.. I then checked whether the source code of the Gemini component of mysqld was available. I saw that it was not. I used standard tools to ``recompile'' mysqld, which means to rebuild the program from the parts provided, and discovered that the rebuilt mysqld did not include Gemini capacity. In a manual distributed in the portion of the CD only related to Windows users I found the statement that ```GEMINI' tables will be included in some future MySQL 3.23.X source distribution.'' ......
38.. Under GPL §4, I conclude, Progress Software Corp. lost the right to distribute MySQL when it distributed NuSphere MySQL Advantage in a fashion that violated GPL. [-END-SNIP-]
==== ==== ==== And if Neuspehere has developed cool stuff, has bore expenses for R&D. How should it make money.
N.D. ==== ==== ====
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--- Navin Dhanuka navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com wrote:
==== ==== ==== And if Neuspehere has developed cool stuff, has bore expenses for R&D. How should it make money.
[snip] hey navin....i suggest u take some time out nd read the gpl. It's make for good readin. If they use gpl code....their product has to comply with gpl...else they were askin for watz happenin to them.
Trevor Warren
N.D.
===== ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ http://www.qmailtheeasyway.com __ /~\ | ) / mailto: trevorwarren@yahoo.com \ (/ | |_|_ \ Urgent ->9820349221@maxtouch.co.in / _|_| ___________________________________/
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:31:33 +0530 "Navin Dhanuka" navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com wrote:
Obviously proprietary software can generate more money than free software. No one is disputing that. The question you need to think about is whether proprietary software is good for Indian society and good for global society. If money is our only measure then we should willing donate our organs for for cash, no?
Tell me if a company like Peutronics, make there flagship software Tally OpenSource or Free, are they to gain more or lose more.
[hmmm...] Tally sucks! there is a Acc software that out there think at SF that is lice. under GNU/GPL
Gain in terms of ofcourse MONEY. Lose in terms of __ ___ __ everything.
=== === ===
GPL is taking court action against a violator. The FSF is taking legal action against "Progress Software Corp." who attempted to ship a binary of "Gemini" -- a mysql storage module without providing sources. Progress Software sells a CDROM called NuSphere MySQL Advantage. This contains various applications like Apache, PHP and MySQL.
As a very important part of HA database services and crash recovery, Gemini is very popular. But the source code is under wraps . ie A GPL violation by Progress Software.
The question is not about GPL standing for trial, but the point about MySQL AB selling ``dual licensed'' editions and Progress Software not being allowed. IMHO GPL will win !
[-SNIP-] EBEN MOGLEN's Affidavit :
19-a.. Redistribution must itself occur under GPL and only GPL, with no additional license conditions. (See Exhibit B, §2(b)); 19-b.. Redistribution must include ``source code,'' the human-readable form of computer programs that allows programmers to understand and modify computer programs for themselves, as opposed to ``object code,'' which is the ``machine language'' version of computer programs that is very difficult for programmers to understand or modify
19-c.. Redistribution must include a copy of the GPL, so that users are aware of their rights to use, copy, modify and distribute, and so that anyone engaged in redistribution is also aware of the conditions under which redistribution is permitted. ...... 35.. I then checked whether the source code of the Gemini component of mysqld was available. I saw that it was not. I used standard tools to ``recompile'' mysqld, which means to rebuild the program from the parts provided, and discovered that the rebuilt mysqld did not include Gemini capacity. In a manual distributed in the portion of the CD only related to Windows users I found the statement that ```GEMINI' tables will be included in some future MySQL 3.23.X source distribution.'' ......
38.. Under GPL §4, I conclude, Progress Software Corp. lost the right to distribute MySQL when it distributed NuSphere MySQL Advantage in a fashion that violated GPL. [-END-SNIP-]
==== ==== ==== And if Neuspehere has developed cool stuff, has bore expenses for R&D. How should it make money.
N.D. ==== ==== ====
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Warren Brian Noronha Consultant on GNU Based Systems wbn@gnuos.org http://www.wbn.f2s.com
Hi,
I have a friend who has a P-2000 MMX with an old BIOS. the BIOS detects only 8GB HDD and is not re-programmable. We made an 8000MB partition and installed Winduhs. And started installing Linux and the installation detected the whole 40 GB HDD. We continued installation by trying ot make a root partition of 2.5 GB, din't allow at all because of 1024 prob. of LILO. So made a 20MB /boot and the rest of the partitions to proceed. Linux works fine(even beyond 8GB), but windows is jacked. The blue bar just refuses to move ahead when we boot in winduhs saying "Warning: Logical drives exist beyond Z".
Formatted the partition /dev/hda1 using mkdosfs but on reboot all it gives is junk, as in does'nt give c:> prompt, but some junk charachters. Trying to boot using floppy also does'nt help as it accesses the HDD and hangs.
Any idea how we can make both winduhs and Linux work on such a box. any pointers/help wud be greatful. I have heard of guys in ILUG-Delhi who've made such a system work for both OS. (without changing the BIOS)
Thanking You,
-- Goldwyn :o)
Goldwyn,
you may try using disk manager to gain access above 8 GB, thats if u have a seagate or samsung hdd, u need to install some overlay drivers which are loaded at boot up, after which lilo takes over :)
i have a western digital drive of 10GB, which i run without any probs, using ez-drive, a discwizard equivalent for western digital drives,
hth, regards, Anil
i live at : http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~gracias
[philip note the "http://" ;)]
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Goldwyn Rodrigues wrote:
Hi,
I have a friend who has a P-2000 MMX with an old BIOS. the BIOS detects only 8GB HDD and is not re-programmable. We made an 8000MB partition and installed Winduhs. And started installing Linux and the installation detected the whole 40 GB HDD. We continued installation by trying ot make a root partition of 2.5 GB, din't allow at all because of 1024 prob. of LILO. So made a 20MB /boot and the rest of the partitions to proceed. Linux works fine(even beyond 8GB), but windows is jacked. The blue bar just refuses to move ahead when we boot in winduhs saying "Warning: Logical drives exist beyond Z".
Formatted the partition /dev/hda1 using mkdosfs but on reboot all it gives is junk, as in does'nt give c:> prompt, but some junk charachters. Trying to boot using floppy also does'nt help as it accesses the HDD and hangs.
Any idea how we can make both winduhs and Linux work on such a box. any pointers/help wud be greatful. I have heard of guys in ILUG-Delhi who've made such a system work for both OS. (without changing the BIOS)
Thanking You,
-- Goldwyn :o)
Well, Goldie, I don't understand one thing..... Your OS is supposed to communicate with BIOS for any device queries. So if your BIOS itself is not reporting beyond 8GB, how can any OS detect more than that?? ( Correct me if I'm wrong........ )
Maybe, the best solution could be to upgrade the BIOS or change the motherboard / BIOS chip. By this, you'll get rid of any more problems to come. The new BIOS chips cost about 500 - 800 bucks, I'm not sure just check it out with a h/w vendor.
The other solution could be : Install Windows on a smaller partition, then use the other space for Linux installation. Then create the other logical drives that you want.
The 1024 Cyl. problem is easy to solve. Just use LBA32 extensions of new LILO.
For more details, check out the partition primer help that comes with the Ranish Partition Manager. http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish http://www.ml.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mranish
Kunal ------------------
On a clear disk you can seek forever. -- P. Denning
----- Original Message ----- From: Goldwyn Rodrigues goldwyn_r@softhome.net To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:58 AM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Problem the older BIOS
Hi,
I have a friend who has a P-2000 MMX with an old BIOS. the BIOS
detects only
8GB HDD and is not re-programmable. We made an 8000MB partition and installed Winduhs. And started installing Linux and the installation detected the whole 40 GB HDD. We continued installation by trying ot
make a
root partition of 2.5 GB, din't allow at all because of 1024 prob. of
LILO.
So made a 20MB /boot and the rest of the partitions to proceed. Linux
works
fine(even beyond 8GB), but windows is jacked. The blue bar just
refuses to
move ahead when we boot in winduhs saying "Warning: Logical drives
exist
beyond Z".
Formatted the partition /dev/hda1 using mkdosfs but on reboot all it
gives
is junk, as in does'nt give c:> prompt, but some junk charachters.
Trying to
boot using floppy also does'nt help as it accesses the HDD and hangs.
Any idea how we can make both winduhs and Linux work on such a box.
any
pointers/help wud be greatful. I have heard of guys in ILUG-Delhi
who've
made such a system work for both OS. (without changing the BIOS)
Thanking You,
-- Goldwyn :o)
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Sometime on Feb 28, Kunal Gangakhedkar assembled some asciibets to say:
Your OS is supposed to communicate with BIOS for any device queries. So if your BIOS itself is not reporting beyond 8GB, how can any OS detect more than that??
nope, not true. the os can query the bios for the disk geometry, or it could get it from the disk controller directly. the hardware can be queried directly. the only purpose of the bios really is to load the os.
----- Original Message ----- From: Philip S Tellis philip.tellis@iname.com To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Problem the older BIOS
Sometime on Feb 28, Kunal Gangakhedkar assembled some asciibets to say:
Your OS is supposed to communicate with BIOS for any device queries. So if your BIOS itself is not reporting beyond 8GB, how can any OS detect more than that??
been using a 20 gb drive, 0- 4gb whine and the rest linux on a system whose bios read is limited to 8gb.
rgds jtdesouza@yahoo.com
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From: "Joshua N Pritikin" vishnu@pobox.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 7:07 PM
No one is disputing that. The question you need to think about is whether proprietary software is good for Indian society and good for global
society.
If money is our only measure then we should willing donate our organs for for cash, no?
What can I say ? Donate for cash . Ironic isn't it?
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--- Nikhil Joshi nikhiljoshy@yahoo.com wrote:
The facts: (CT Sept .2001) 1.Indian IT market share $23.1 billion. growth rate 31.6% 2.Indian nationals employed in IT and telecom in US: 250,000 3.Indians in Microsoft in R&D : 32% 4.Q1 revenue due to software in 2001-2002 : 8,600 crores withgrowth rate of 52 % !!!
All this money was not made by creating and selling software that we use at home. It was made by creating specific solutions for specific problems that companies face and need to address. Repeat, _very few_ people actually work in a position where branded software is created!
Now I am not in this field, but I can take a small example which I hope is not entirely off the mark. Consider a big RDBMS like Oracle, which is used in many such solutions. If that is replaced by a better open source RDBMS that is available to all, won't that help our "IT" (sic) companies to create better solutions? Think about it and try to extrapolate. The money is not made in software programming, it is made by providing services.
SameerDS.
===== -- MTech Student Reconfigurable Computing Lab KReSIT, IIT-Bombay
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From: "Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe" sam_buddhe@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:01 PM
All this money was not made by creating and selling software that we
^^^^ ^^^^^^
use at home. It was made by creating specific solutions for specific problems that companies face and need to address. Repeat, _very few_ people actually work in a position where branded software is created!
I don't think so. So can we finally assume that proprietary software is OK only if it is not used for personal use? Dosen't it hamper the cause of free software ? Anywayz I guess the discussion is about proprietary software in general and not the software that we use at home.
BTW Please refer point 3.
Now I am not in this field, but I can take a small example which I hope is not entirely off the mark. Consider a big RDBMS like Oracle, which is used in many such solutions. If that is replaced by a better open source RDBMS that is available to all, won't that help our "IT" (sic)
I doubt. Let's suppose one of our IT companies opts for open source RDBMS only to find out that 8 out of 10 people don't know any RDBMS other than Oracle. So it starts imparting training . But it soon discovers that new applicants have excellent skill sets in commercial software. Should it keep on giving training ( and maybe falling behind other companies ) or should it stick to commercial software which is giving it large amounts of profit?
P.S. A thought ... Linux is everywhere. There is no concept of proprietary software. A business organization approaches me for software development. It is willing to pay me money without bothering about whether I provide the source code or not . The software should work and be ready within a given deadline. I work my a** out and deliver the software along with source code et al to the client only to discover that one of competitors has laid his hands on it and is making money out of my ideas :( I'm doomed. Shouldn't I make my software proprietary ? The trend continues everywhere and there is a great divide : proprietary software for Linux & free software for Linux (for home?) Brrrrrr. possible?
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Linux is everywhere. There is no concept of proprietary software. A business organization approaches me for software development. It is willing to pay me money without bothering about whether I provide the
source
code or not . The software should work and be ready within a given
deadline.
I work my a** out and deliver the software along with source code et al
to
the client only to discover that one of competitors has laid his hands on
it
and is making money out of my ideas :( I'm doomed. Shouldn't I make my software proprietary ? The trend continues everywhere and there is a great divide : proprietary software for Linux & free software for Linux (for home?) Brrrrrr. possible?
It is M$ Win, becuase of which the personal computing has spread to millions of houses. [and u curse them for mkaing money, and call ruthless ... ..] It M$ Win was not there, then I guess computing, Internet etc. must have been a distant dreams for all of us. Can't remember which **ix company made any efforts in sprading computing
QNX the real time OS, has openly said that if we release our source code, we will loose the competitive edge we have earned.
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On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:23:37 +0530 "Navin Dhanuka" navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com wrote:
Linux is everywhere. There is no concept of proprietary software. A business organization approaches me for software development. It is willing to pay me money without bothering about whether I provide the source code or not . The software should work and be ready within a given
deadline.
I work my a** out and deliver the software along with source code et al to the client only to discover that one of competitors has laid his hands on it and is making money out of my ideas :( I'm doomed. Shouldn't I make my software proprietary ? The trend continues everywhere and there is a great divide : proprietary software for Linux & free software for Linux (for home?) Brrrrrr. possible?
It is M$ Win, becuase of which the personal computing has spread to millions of houses. [and u curse them for mkaing money, and call ruthless ... ..] It M$ Win was not there, then I guess computing, Internet etc.
[hmmm...]
Bill Gates in the early 90's said the insternet is just a trend and was not here to stay hence M$ was not going to support it.. in a press conff. later in the 1994-95 he said that M$ nurtured the internet ever since its early years.... as for M$ they dont develop most of the software, most of the NT kernel is coded frm scratch by Cytrix (better known of the vompany that made ICA Metaframes). as for MS Office only Word Power point is made by MS the remain. is done by Borland. thats why borland says even if we dont sell a single product we can survive, thats beacuse most of their revenue comes frm MS. The GUI Features is made by Apple Computers. and MS caught the wave because when it bought DOS frm a hacker it tied a deal with IBM PC on of the first pc hence MS Products caught on.. even the main creator of .Net uses Borland Delphi and Kylix huh? seems weared!
must have been a distant dreams for all of us. Can't remember which **ix company made any efforts in sprading computing
[hhhmmm...] get ur fundas right dude! *nix was never ment for home users and pc's it has and always been a sever OS, only GNU broke the rules and started GNOME thus bringin Nix to home users.
where as dos and mac os were always ment for home and pc's use
QNX the real time OS, has openly said that if we release our source code, we will loose the competitive edge we have earned.
[hmmm...] they are plannin to but not the kernel and GUI
Warren Brian Noronha Consultant on GNU Based Systems wbn@gnuos.org http://www.wbn.f2s.com
--- Warren Brian Noronha wbn@gnuos.org wrote:
get ur fundas right dude! *nix was never ment for home users and pc's it has and always been a sever OS, only GNU broke the rules and started GNOME thus bringin Nix to home users.
No mention of KDE here. KDE was started well before GNOME and it was those guys who wanted to created a nice GUI for *nix. And KDE is still better (usability, accessibility) than GNOME if you've ever used decent GUIs.
Manish
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On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 08:08:37AM +0000, Manish Jethani wrote:
And KDE is still better (usability, accessibility) than GNOME if you've ever used decent GUIs.
KDE is better in usability, accessibility and it follow standards for menus, shortcuts but GNOME is far stable than KDE. I used both for quiet long period, what I found is when you open a lot of KDE application it starts behaving like windows i.e. becomes very slow. And sometimes hangs.
i agree to that point that GNOME is stable than KDE try out switching the virtual consol while listing to XMMS the kde will not retrun to the X again. Buti also the KDE is the best interface for the migrating users from Bindows to *nx World
KDE is better in usability, accessibility and it follow standards for menus, shortcuts but GNOME is far stable than KDE. I used both for quiet long period, what I found is when you open a lot of KDE application it starts behaving like windows i.e. becomes very slow. And sometimes hangs.
Sometime Today, Manish Jethani assembled some asciibets to say:
No mention of KDE here. KDE was started well before GNOME and it was those guys who wanted to created a nice GUI for *nix. And KDE
and then came Xfce, also before Gnome. Xfce came because KDE was non-free. Xfce has seven developers. Xfce is light, good looking, usable, and has on helluva samba client.
On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 08:10:29AM +0530, Nikhil Joshi wrote:
I doubt. Let's suppose one of our IT companies opts for open source RDBMS only to find out that 8 out of 10 people don't know any RDBMS other than Oracle.
That is what was the initial goal of this school college movement. We should educate people in schools and colleges about the free softwares.
So it starts imparting training . But it soon discovers that new applicants have excellent skill sets in commercial software. Should it keep on giving training ( and maybe falling behind other companies ) or should it stick to commercial software which is giving it large amounts of profit?
Think the other way round if suppose 8 out 10 are well aquinted with PostgreeSQL. Now for professional Oracle training how much a company will be spending. I think this will be much more than a PostgreSQL training program.
Linux is everywhere. There is no concept of proprietary software. A business organization approaches me for software development. It is willing to pay me money without bothering about whether I provide the source code or not . The software should work and be ready within a given deadline. I work my a** out and deliver the software along with source code et al to the client only to discover that one of competitors has laid his hands on it and is making money out of my ideas
Now consider yourself as a business organization. Suppose you asked me for a software and I made it for you. Your business heavily rely on my software. The suddenly my company shuts down software making unit. And your company make some policy changes according to which you have to modify the software. I think you have to pay again for the complete software to some other company.
"This above disscussion is once we had in train while going home from office."
I'm doomed. Shouldn't I make my software proprietary ? The trend continues everywhere and there is a great divide : proprietary software for Linux & free software for Linux (for home?)
You are not talking practical things. Suppose you make small software then anybody can make it without source code. And if the software is very large then it is only you who can make changes fast. So the business organization will come only to you if they need fast modification and if you are taking reasonable price.
regards
--- Nikhil Joshi nikhiljoshy@yahoo.com wrote:
From: "Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe" sam_buddhe@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:01 PM
P.S. A thought ... Linux is everywhere. There is no concept of proprietary software. A business organization approaches me for software development. It is willing to pay me money without bothering about whether I provide the source code or not . The software should work and be ready within a given deadline. I work my a** out and deliver the software along with source code et al to the client only to discover that one of competitors has laid his hands on it and is making money out of my ideas :( I'm doomed. Shouldn't I make my software
proprietary
?
[snip]
whatever u choose u is ur prob dude. C dude..there r many wayz to ensure that others too benefit from u code BUT rn't in direct competition with u. May projects like tripwire too which r gpl'ed release their code.....but only of an older version...which isnt very appealing nyway.
But, the funda is pple don't hav to re-invent the bloody wheen vrytime, thatz what Free Software is all abt.
If this doesn;t gel with u fine.....no1 is forcin nythin down ur throat dude....just that we hav a way of sharin thingz so that re0inventing the wheel ain't required.
Trevor Warren
The trend continues everywhere and there is a great divide : proprietary software for Linux & free software for Linux (for home?) Brrrrrr. possible?
p://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
===== ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ http://www.qmailtheeasyway.com __ /~\ | ) / mailto: trevorwarren@yahoo.com \ (/ | |_|_ \ Urgent ->9820349221@maxtouch.co.in / _|_| ___________________________________/
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--- Trevor Warren trevorwarren@yahoo.com wrote:
whatever u choose u is ur prob dude. C dude..there r
[snip]
# trevor.sed s/[.][.]+/ \0 /g; s/\bu\b/you/g; s/\bur\b/your/g; s/ ?\bdude\b ?//g; s/\br\b/are/g; s/(\b[A-Za-z][a-z]*)z\b/\1s/g; s/\bny(way|time|where|thing?)?\b/any\1/g; s/\bvry(way|time|where|thing?)?\b/every\1/g; s/\b([A-Za-z][a-z]*)sn;?t\b/\1sn't/g; s/\brn'?t\b/aren't/g; s/\bpple\b/people/g; s/\babt\b/about/g; s/\b([A-Za-z][a-z]*)0([a-z]+)\b/\1-\2/g; s/\b(no|any|every|)1\b/\1one/g;
# .procmailrc :0 wf: * ^From:.*trevor.* | /bin/sed -f ${HOME}/trevor.sed
free s/w is the way to go dude!
Manish
________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a job? Visit Yahoo! India Careers Visit http://in.careers.yahoo.com
Sometime Today, Manish Jethani assembled some asciibets to say:
# trevor.sed s/[.][.]+/ \0 /g; s/\bu\b/you/g; s/\bur\b/your/g;
[snip]
ha ha ha ha ha. rotflmao.
On Mar 2, 2002 at 07:57, Manish Jethani wrote:
# trevor.sed
[snip]
# .procmailrc
[snip]
I'm tempted to use that, but I don't like programs messing with the contents of my email.
But come on, Trevor, type straight please? You look like an immature B1FF, and we know you're not.
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Manish Jethani -
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Pankaj Jangid -
Philip S Tellis -
sachin -
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe -
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Trevor Warren -
Warren Brian Noronha