---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" linuxers@mm.glug-bom.org Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:09:07 +0530 Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Cross Posting] How the corrupt ones manipulate things - are we going to allow them to win ? Should we just keep quiet or begin a global protest ? On Saturday 29 March 2008 10:53 am, Sudhir Gandotra wrote:
The statement goes on to say that Danish Standards is changing its vote because "the 168 Danish comments have been adopted as changes to ISO/IEC DIS 29500 OOXML".
What they did not tell you is that abstain = yes. And that email votes count. Only that many of the abstainers never recieved any intimation stating that abstain = yes.
So in the bizzare M$ universe no with comments become yes, if the ecma makes a comment - any comment - on your comment and abstain = yes and you can change a no to yes BUT you turncoats cant change a yes to no.
Get it. NO? aha that's what happens if you dont use M$.
The standard operating process of Microsoft has been:
a) Stuff the committee with supporters (as happened in Pakistan and other countries) b) If that doesn't work and the committee says NO to OOXML then c) Complain to the ministries under which the committee works, threaten to withdraw investment, get proxies to file complaints etc.
In India, I hear that they raised the issue with the Prime Minister's Office and the PM called for a meeting on this issue on Thursday. Apparently, the head of one of the software export houses (a VERY respected person) also sent a fax supporting OOXML *after* the committee had given its decision, trying to overturn India's NO vote. Someone should ask whether these companies represent India's interests on the BIS committee or are they protecting their dollar revenues?
Venky
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find their way out. If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing of irregularities (http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is the ISO which should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected standards organization has NO standard for participating members on how to conduct evaluations/voting? It will effectively be a big failure for ISO - failing to practice what they preach.
On Monday 31 March 2008 02:59 pm, Ravindra Jaju wrote:
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find their way out. If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing of irregularities
If only they spent as much time, money and energy in straightening out their crappy software.....Oh well they already are but could not get code to work without jumping into the middle of an opcode.
(http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is the ISO which should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected standards organization has NO standard for participating members on how to conduct evaluations/voting? It will effectively be a big failure for ISO - failing to practice what they preach.
Agreed. But even in national bodies with well defined procedures (Poland), the rules were so mangled that fraud cases have been filed. Besides there have been many contentious standards approval cases over the years, But NEVER has it been so corrupted and brazenly manipulated.
I always pitied M$ pathetic attempts at papering over their crappy software. We were always able to side step without too much trouble. But this one will force us all to contend with the rubbish their software spews out....probably forever.
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 12:44 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 02:59 pm, Ravindra Jaju wrote:
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find their way out. If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing of irregularities
If only they spent as much time, money and energy in straightening out their crappy software.....Oh well they already are but could not get code to work without jumping into the middle of an opcode.
(http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is the ISO which should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected standards organization has NO standard for participating members on how to conduct evaluations/voting? It will effectively be a big failure for ISO - failing to practice what they preach.
Agreed. But even in national bodies with well defined procedures (Poland), the rules were so mangled that fraud cases have been filed. Besides there have been many contentious standards approval cases over the years, But NEVER has it been so corrupted and brazenly manipulated.
I always pitied M$ pathetic attempts at papering over their crappy software. We were always able to side step without too much trouble. But this one will force us all to contend with the rubbish their software spews out....probably forever.
-- Rgds JTD
Norway's Yes-to-OOXML is Formally Protested
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/31/200201&from=rss
"Norway's yes-to-OOXML may tip the vote in favor of accepting it as an ISO-standard, but the committee chairman just faxed a formal protest to the ISO. 'I am writing to you in my capacity as Chairman (of 13 years standing) of the Norwegian mirror committee to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 34. I wish to inform you of serious irregularities in connection with the Norwegian vote on ISO/IEC DIS 29500 (Office Open XML) and to lodge a formal protest. You will have been notified that Norway voted to approve OOXML in this ballot. This decision does not reflect the view of the vast majority of the Norwegian committee, 80% of which was against changing Norway's vote from No with comments to Yes.'"
--- With best wishes for Unity in thinking, feeling and action.
Sudhir Gandotra. 98-101-20918
IIPL: B-220/2, 2nd Fl., Savitri Nagar, Malviya Nagar, New Delhi 110017, India Phone : +91-11-26014670, 71, 72. Fax : +91-11-26014672
OpenLX Linux OS, Linux Training, Support, Services, Product Development Affordable Business Desktop @ Just Rs. 500/- : http://kalculate.com/piracy.php http://www.openlx.com/openlx.html - FOSS award 2008 winner Linux from India http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/24867/news.htm http://openlx.com/features.html - OpenLX Linux features
You don't need violence to shake the world Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You www.humanistmovement.org
"Bill Gates is New Secretary General of ISO"
http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/04/bill-gates-is-new-secretary-general-of.h...
Nice one Venky! :-)
~ViM
On Monday 31 March 2008 01:16 pm, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
The standard operating process of Microsoft has been:
a) Stuff the committee with supporters (as happened in Pakistan and other countries) b) If that doesn't work and the committee says NO to OOXML then c) Complain to the ministries under which the committee works, threaten to withdraw investment, get proxies to file complaints etc. In India, I hear that they raised the issue with the Prime Minister's Office and the PM called for a meeting on this issue on Thursday. Apparently, the head of one of the software export houses (a VERY respected person) also sent a fax supporting OOXML *after* the committee had given its decision, trying to overturn India's NO vote.
Probably the same one who said that multiple standards are good for the public and promotes competition. I wonder if he is getting senile.
Someone should ask whether these companies represent India's interests on the BIS committee or are they protecting their dollar revenues?
The $ countries have already voted yes. It is local competition for big central / state government contracts that specify iso standards WITHOUT M$ patented DIS(functional)25000.
The final outcome is likely to be yes in the ISO, given corrupt M$ practices.
And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
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jtd wrote:
| And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like | they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
if there's a lesson in there somewhere that would be that battles like OOXML cannot be be fought alone. having seen venky and others scramble around for that "another influential contact who would listen to reason and be sane" it is fairly clear that this has to be a much more involved process. it requires more folks to join in and help in spreading the message of why no ooxml in simpler terms and in multiple indian languages
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 16:51 +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
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jtd wrote:
| And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like | they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
if there's a lesson in there somewhere that would be that battles like OOXML cannot be be fought alone. having seen venky and others scramble around for that "another influential contact who would listen to reason and be sane" it is fairly clear that this has to be a much more involved process. it requires more folks to join in and help in spreading the message of why no ooxml in simpler terms and in multiple indian languages
I agree. Maybe a special groups needs to be formed to battle this long-term issue. If this is the interest, I will be a volunteer.
--- With best wishes for Unity in thinking, feeling and action.
Sudhir Gandotra. 98-101-20918
IIPL: B-220/2, 2nd Fl., Savitri Nagar, Malviya Nagar, New Delhi 110017, India Phone : +91-11-26014670, 71, 72. Fax : +91-11-26014672
OpenLX Linux OS, Linux Training, Support, Services, Product Development Affordable Business Desktop @ Just Rs. 500/- : http://kalculate.com/piracy.php http://www.openlx.com/openlx.html - FOSS award 2008 winner Linux from India http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/24867/news.htm http://openlx.com/features.html - OpenLX Linux features
You don't need violence to shake the world Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You www.humanistmovement.org
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jtd -
Ravindra Jaju -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay -
Sudhir Gandotra -
Venkatesh Hariharan -
Vipul Mathur