Dear Rakesh,
You don't know the real mafia that runs fee software from Trivandrum. They want to eat up all the money from government coffers. They will do the same project any number of times. Look at space, apts or any free software initiative that we have in kerala. They are for sucking government money. Take the case of Malayalam localization. These guys did this When fund got exhausted they shifted to Space. They will come out with another initiative when the government changes.
If the government had entrusted localization to a commercial software company , after inviting tenders and with a condition that the code developed is GPL , the task might have been over in a very short time. The localisation will go on for ever and malayalam will eventually die.
The Cochin event was well engineered so that the Mafia get a martyr image. They got maximum publicity. Several old listers will remember how some of the board members sneaked into the board overnight.
All FSF board members from Kerala form a gang ( I dont know about others) . Have a look at this page. http://www.gnu.org.in/about-fsf-india/whos-who And then examine the real contribution of kerala members on technology front. It will be a big zero. FSF India should publish detials of its board memebers ,working group members and clearly state what free software project each one is associated with. ( I can even see people with just email ids alone like kg(at)tug.org.in )
I think there are several listers around who recognises the gang. Now that they are caught red handed , they are trying to be diplomatic and offering soaps to the original blogger to douse the fire. (See lug TVM mail list) It seems Sunil will get kick behind his back very soon. Kannan PS Just read the list of people protested as posted by Arun. The very people who ran the Trivandrum show. They are seen at film festival cultural events Computer Society of India ,IEEE, ABCD XYZ etc. You start a new forum they will hijack it in due course.
--- On Mon, 12/15/08, Rakesh രാകേഷ് rakeshklr@gmail.com wrote: From: Rakesh രാകേഷ് rakeshklr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Use of Windows by some speakers To: "Arun M" arun@gnu.org.in Cc: fsf-friends@gnu.org.in Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 9:32 AM
Dear Arun, Just a single question... Mistake is mistake and it has to be corrected. It would have been nice
if you had joined as a volunteer for the conference. We were just a hand full of people who were doing most of the work at the end of the day. All the committees and officials did not do the sweat job. And it is a fact that technical track was on our lowest priority.
Why didnt you have the same feeling when you initiated the bloody drama in the name of Novell protest at Cochin conference...????? A hand full of students and teachers were working hard day and night to make the Cochin event a great success... No one like you were there to help them... And at the end of the day, you tried your level best to demoralize them.... At least start thinking in the right direction, for the best of the free software community if you still do not have some other concerns...
Rakesh
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Dear Sunil,
Mistake is mistake and it has to be corrected. It would have been nice
if you had
joined as a volunteer for the conference. We were just a hand full of
people who were doing
most of the work at the end of the day. All the committees and
officials did not do the sweat job.
And it is a fact that technical track was on our lowest priority.
Out of around 16 technical session only one came out to be wrong
decisions. Out of nearly 50 panelist
who participated in policy session, no one found any major policy issues.
In the exhibition area only issue that was found is one person having
a windows laptop in SBT stall.
State Bank of Travencore was a sponsor for the event and they were
given a stall. They were distributing
their publicity materials. One of their staff was having a windows
based laptop.
Having windows like theme is not a wrong thing IMHO. Some one asked
about streaming technology used.
It is giss.tv and as far as we know it is based on free software and
ogg format.
Video conferencing was with Ekiga.
with warm regards
arun.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Sunil Thomas Thonikuzhiyil
vu2swx@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It is interesting to see that partly proprietary java fx got in.
I am not asking for the details of tech committee.
Sunil
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done
arbitrarily.
Do you have any clue to it.
There was a program committee for technical presentations.
regards
arun
_______________________________________________
Fsf-friends mailing list
Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in
http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
Dear Kannan,
Your mail is full of vague insinuations and accusations. If you are expecting a response from those whom you are accusing, it would be good to make your statements clear and precise. If your intention is only mud slinging, you can carry on at the risk of becoming a laughing stock. And I find it strange that you advocate giving the work of localisation to a commercial company. You don't want such work to be done by the community? And you are depreciating the huge effort being put in by a number of our young people. Please remember that you are actually insulting them by your words. It would be good if you studied what people are doing before throwing wild accusations against them.
You are also accusing the FSF Board members of "sneaking in" and ganging up. These are serious allegations and you may have to substantiate them. Please give your evidence for these allegations.
It is strange that you are asking for proof for involvement in Free Software projects from members of the Director board and Working Group. You seem to think that the objective of FSF India is to contribute to Free Software projects. Please do your homework properly before taking up arms against people who are doing what they can for the good of FS in India.
Sasi
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:39 -0800, A Kannan. (CUSAT) wrote:
You don't know the real mafia that runs fee software fromTrivandrum. They want to eat up all the money from government coffers. They will do the same project any number of times. Look at space, apts or any free software initiative that we have in kerala. They are for sucking government money. Take the case of Malayalam localization. These guys did this When fund got exhausted they shifted to Space. They will come out with another initiative when the government changes.
If the government had entrusted localization to a commercial software company , after inviting tenders and with a condition that the code developed is GPL , the task might have been over in a very short time. The localisation will go on for ever and malayalam will eventually die.
The Cochin event was well engineered so that the Mafia get a martyr image. They got maximum publicity. Several old listers will remember how some of the board members sneaked into the board overnight.
All FSF board members from Kerala form a gang ( I dont know about others) . Have a look at this page. http://www.gnu.org.in/about-fsf-india/whos-who And then examine the real contribution of kerala members on technology front. It will be a big zero. FSF India should publish detials of its board memebers ,working group members and clearly state what free software project each one is associated with. ( I can even see people with just email ids alone like kg(at)tug.org.in )
I think there are several listers around who recognises thegang. Now that they are caught red handed , they are trying to be diplomatic and offering soaps to the original blogger to douse the fire. (See lug TVM mail list) It seems Sunil will get kick behind his back very soon.
Kannan PS Just read the list of people protested as posted by Arun. The very people who ran the Trivandrum show. They are seen at film festival cultural events Computer Society of India ,IEEE, ABCD XYZ etc. You start a new forum they will hijack it in due course.
On Tuesday 16 Dec 2008, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
Your mail is full of vague insinuations and accusations. [snip]
What keeps me going is that this dialogue is permitted (and perhaps even encouraged) on this mailing list.
I don't know whether or not you (the FSF Board) sneaked in, or made lots of money, or constitute a mafia, or are really MS employees in disguise. Without more information one way or the other, I can't make any judgement on these matters. However, I can judge what I see, and I appreciate the fact that this discussion is happening on this forum, and I hope it continues to happen until matters are resolved (or unless people start making personal smears to prove their points, at which stage the discussion becomes meaningless anyway).
One request to those accusing the Board (or members of the Board): let's please discuss matters in the light of what is better for free software in this country, rather than in the light of specific incidents which, while they may have left a bad taste in peoples' mouths, are by themselves only tangentially relevant to the long-term goal of freedom. If you believe that the Board isn't doing enough to foster FOSS, or is actually having a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India, please bring out your reasons for that and I for one will support your cause whole-heartedly. FUD, on the other hand, is a weapon employed by the weak to undermine their opponent, and unfortunately using it makes one's arguments appear just that: weak; facts rather than FUD is what we need.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 08:33 +0530, Raj Mathur wrote:
If you believe that the Board isn't doing enough to foster FOSS, or is actually having a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India, please bring out your reasons for that and I for one will support your cause whole-heartedly.
I too will be there with you.
Best
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:15 AM, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 08:33 +0530, Raj Mathur wrote:
If you believe that the Board isn't doing enough to foster FOSS, or is actually having a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India, please bring out your reasons for that and I for one will support your cause whole-heartedly.
I too will be there with you.
Best
V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India http://swatantryam.blogspot.com
"This is a CPM event and the objective god only knows. This would appear to be part of an attempt to float a parallel process to take over the Free Software movement in the country. what this group is doing is really sabotaging the whole movement itself by causing confusion among FS supporters. "
These words of Sasikumar are clearly good reasons. Whatever 'clarifications' or 'explanations' he has given afterwards are not convincing enough.
Haynes.
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 10:29 +0530, haynes davis wrote:
These words of Sasikumar are clearly good reasons. Whatever 'clarifications' or 'explanations' he has given afterwards are not convincing enough.
Good reasons for what? Abusing the entire board? Accusing the board of various things, including harming the FS movement and swindling money? Of attaining power at the expense of CPM? I don't seem to have any power other than to look after myself. If you think I do, please give me one example of where I have used this power.
Best
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:24 PM, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 10:29 +0530, haynes davis wrote:
These words of Sasikumar are clearly good reasons. Whatever 'clarifications' or 'explanations' he has given afterwards are not convincing enough.
Good reasons for what? Abusing the entire board? Accusing the board of various things, including harming the FS movement and swindling money? Of attaining power at the expense of CPM? I don't seem to have any power other than to look after myself. If you think I do, please give me one example of where I have used this power.
Good reasons for 'a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India'. Those words are pure disregard for the support cpim has given to free software community. Creating suspicions of these kind will never do good to free software movement.
From FSF-I board staement
http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issues-1
*"10. Can any one hijack FSF India ? *
The structure described above makes that very difficult." What does this mean? Does this mean that some one trying to hijack and they are not successful because of the structure of FSF-I?
Do you recognise the work done by cpim as an organisation and a political party for the free software movement? Do you still hold the cpim-hijack theory? If not, why dont you explicitly say you were completely wrong in using those words? Do you think allying with cpim will do good to our movement (considering their present policy on free software)? Should we work with (not for) cpim for the goodness of free software movement?
Haynes.
You mean to say that CPIM's support for Free Software depends on what I say? I think you are ascribing too much authority to me. As far as I understand, the party supports the FS movement for ideological reasons. Because it thinks that FS is good for the society and the country. And it should be that way too. FS does not belong to me (or anyone else, for that matter.) It belongs to the entire humanity. It is promoted by tens of thousands of people, people like you, people like Praveen, Ashik and so many others. I try to contribute what I can. Why should a large party like CPIM become against FS simply because of what I wrote in a list? I don't think they are. Maybe some of them may feel anger towards me. I can understand that. But why should they oppose FS for that? It is like saying that the CPIM is affected because of something you wrote in some mailing list. Nothing like that can happen, or has happened. Remember, nothing has happened to the party even though stalwarts like K.R. Gowri have left it. Similarly, nothing is going to happen to the FS movement. So don't worry about such things. Let us just work towards popularising Free Software.
Happy hacking Sasi
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 16:29 +0530, haynes davis wrote:
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:24 PM, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
Good reasons for 'a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India'. Those words are pure disregard for the support cpim has given to free software community. Creating suspicions of these kind will never do good to free software movement.
From FSF-I board staement http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issues-1
Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
What keeps me going is that this dialogue is permitted (and perhaps even encouraged) on this mailing list.
I don't know whether or not you (the FSF Board) sneaked in, or made lots of money, or constitute a mafia, or are really MS employees in disguise. Without more information one way or the other, I can't make any judgement on these matters. However, I can judge what I see, and I appreciate the fact that this discussion is happening on this forum, and I hope it continues to happen until matters are resolved
Totaly agree with this.
The organisers of Cochin conference have a very good opportunity here to present their side of the story as on how their choice of Novell as a sponsor is justified, why disagreement was handled with violence, and why Arun and others were treated disrespectfully. Instead what we get to see is complete ad hominem and emotional outburts against a bunch of individuals in FSF-I board, who may or may not have been right in their actions. I do not have a reason to believe that FSF-I director board is a power structure either, as accused previously -- if they are a power-abusing cabal, the existence of these threads have to have some sort of explanation which I can't figure out myself.
Agreed Raj. I just wanted to point out that "King is naked" Kannan
--- On Mon, 12/15/08, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote: From: Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Use of Windows by some speakers To: fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 9:03 PM
On Tuesday 16 Dec 2008, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
Your mail is full of vague insinuations and accusations. [snip]
What keeps me going is that this dialogue is permitted (and perhaps even encouraged) on this mailing list.
I don't know whether or not you (the FSF Board) sneaked in, or made lots of money, or constitute a mafia, or are really MS employees in disguise. Without more information one way or the other, I can't make any judgement on these matters. However, I can judge what I see, and I appreciate the fact that this discussion is happening on this forum, and I hope it continues to happen until matters are resolved (or unless people start making personal smears to prove their points, at which stage the discussion becomes meaningless anyway).
One request to those accusing the Board (or members of the Board): let's please discuss matters in the light of what is better for free software in this country, rather than in the light of specific incidents which, while they may have left a bad taste in peoples' mouths, are by themselves only tangentially relevant to the long-term goal of freedom. If you believe that the Board isn't doing enough to foster FOSS, or is actually having a negative impact on the growth of freedom in India, please bring out your reasons for that and I for one will support your cause whole-heartedly. FUD, on the other hand, is a weapon employed by the weak to undermine their opponent, and unfortunately using it makes one's arguments appear just that: weak; facts rather than FUD is what we need.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 06:13 -0800, A Kannan. (CUSAT) wrote:
Agreed Raj. I just wanted to point out that "King is naked"
There is no king here, Kannan. There are only activists and supporters.
Best
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:09 PM, A Kannan. (CUSAT) forukannan@yahoo.com wrote: <snip>
Take the case of Malayalam localization. These guys did this When fund got exhausted they shifted to Space. They will come out with another initiative when the government changes.
</snip>
Dear Kannan,
I dont know about your mafia theory . But Why you are taking the credit of malayalam Localization from Free Software Community in Kerala. Swathanthra Malayalam Computing Initiated by Baiju M in 2001 did most of the Localisation of GNU/Linux desktops. In between some projects like Keltron project you pointed & UNDP supported Project through K-BIP also contributed to Localisation of GNU/Linux desktops. Still Swathanthra Malayalam Computing(SMC) is the biggest Free software developer Community in Kerala, with representations from all sectors of society. SMC is completly working in a peer model and not accepted any money yet from any agency for its work. Your Ignorance about Free Software Community initiatives is ok.. But dont attribute the work of free software community to Govt agencies & NGOs
If the government had entrusted localization to a commercial software company , after inviting tenders and with a condition that the code developed is GPL , the task might have been over in a very short time. The localisation will go on for ever and malayalam will eventually die.
Ho.. Tenders for Localisation with a condition "code developed is GPL"
Great!!
All Free Software Projects are not in same license. If there is tender like this. malayalam localisation may be died long back. And Localisation is not a Fixed time task to be completed on time. There is no finishing point for localisation work. Localisation is a continuous cultural process. Those who are in a project/money mode thinking cant understand it.
Do you know malayalam is officially supported now in Gnome (2.16 onwards) and in KDE(4.1 onwards) At least 2 distros (Debian and Fedora) can be fully installable in Malayalam now SMC is popularised the user to producer model of free software in kerala
Ignorance is fine. But dont make it as a Power to tarnish the work of Free Software Communities
Anivar Aravind
-
A Kannan. (CUSAT) -
Anivar Aravind -
haynes davis -
Raj Mathur -
Sajith T S -
V. Sasi Kumar