Linuxers October 2001

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

73 participants
110 discussions

Re: [ILUG-BOM] TROWSERS
by Nikhil D. Kikkeri 27 Oct '01

27 Oct '01

hmm seems interesting, my University here in Dallas has many people working on various WWW technologies.something like this might perhaps draw their attention.i will see what i can do. ram ram nikhil ----------------- Nikhil D. Kikkeri 2949 Apartment 32 Binkley Avenue Dallas TX 75205 214-369-5894 Also at ------- nikhil(a)engr.smu.edu idlidosalover(a)hotmail.com nikhil_k(a)flashmail.com Website ------- http://www.engr.smu.edu/~nikhil >From: Anand <akiyer(a)vsnl.com> >Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in >To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in >Subject: [ILUG-BOM] TROWSERS >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:34:09 +0530 > >TROWSERS: Translating Browsers > >Thanks for replies. the complete reply by Philip tellis was very >informative. >Thanks Philip and Sumant Martin is also partially right because he >understands the enormity of the tasks. > >Well The present working of the web requires that there be several >pages, one in french, one in english and one in Hindi and so on. > >By having langcodes, we can have a singular web page. >The problem is that not all languages are like Sanskrit, which I believe >has been researched by Germans to be the most suitable language for >computer communications. Literature may be the most difficult to translate. >But company reports, simple communication can be codified. >I am again not talking about codification in five languages but in >thousands of languages so the task is that enormous. > >I am planning to start an organization for implementing this. I am sure >that we are doing things in a different way now, but the web has always >been a place of surprise twists and turns in strategy. Linux being one >of the most popular ones. > >I failed to benefit for my work done on GIMP, but I do not want to see >similar things for others and so >The work will be part financed by me and am also looking for other >partners and also hard code browser programmers. > >The idea requires good understanding of browser programming, list >management and so on. Translators would also be required, but that can >at present be left to me. > >Interested candidates of the list can apply for knowing how to >contribute and how to benefit out of it. > >If we are able to translate 5000 common phrases in phase 1 we can reduce >web traffic by at least 20 % and at the same time have multitudes >reading the web pages. Second phase can see the target go up to fifty >thousand phrases. > >Anand >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Visit www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> for >Free Tutorials, Source Codes and Other stuff. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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no mail for 2 days
by Anand 27 Oct '01

27 Oct '01

Is there a problem, i have not recieved the regular Linuxers mail for the last two days. Anand -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> for Free Tutorials, Source Codes and Other stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Testing
by Nagarjuna G. 27 Oct '01

27 Oct '01

A test mail, please ignore Nagarjuna

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db.ilug-bom.org.in
by Nagarjuna G. 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Dear Linuxers I have created and started uploading useful resources for GNU/Linux. The URL is: http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/ I also need volunteers to maintain this site. Also give me suggestions regarding the use of this area. If you have any material that you wish to upload, let me know. Nagarjuna

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Re: Linuxers digest, Vol 1 #239 - 3 msgs
by Anand 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

> > > Re: HMI: Making the Browser SCADA Multilingual (Philip S Tellis) > You're reinventing the wheel man. These things already exist. There are already 2_2 language codes for all languages, and html has a lang attribute for all tags. So, your html would be something like this: <html lang="en"> ..... <p lang="en">... <p lang="fr">... and so on. Alternately, servers could have content negotiation, based on the Accept-language: header sent by the browser. I won't go into this now. the 2_2 codes are of the format: two letter code for language, optional underscore and two letter code for dialect. en -> english en_US -> us english en_GB -> brit english pt -> portuguese pt_BR -> brazilian portuguese you get the idea I hope. I don't recall where you can get the full list of language codes, but it's out there somewhere. All you have to do, is get your browser to support it. AFAIK, all other browsers already support it. Philip Hello, Thanks for the reply, But I believe that the language code as on date only signifies the character presentations. In case i type "How are you" and the user has a devanagari operating system, it helps in him seeing it as "How are you" But by langcodes, when i type "How are you", the code is passed to the user and he sees it as "AAp kaise hain" in devanagari script. In other words, the entire text gets translated in phrases. Similarly when he types, "main acha hoon", the english initiator of the message sees it as "I am well". I don't think, this can be in any way reinventing the wheel. But such a scheme will facilitate communications in the internet without any language barriers. You can put up your website in english and a chinese person who only knows chinese or an arab who only knows arabic or a Indian who only knows hindi or gujarathi or marathi, can see the contents in his native language. Anand > > >

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TROWSERS
by Anand 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

TROWSERS: Translating Browsers Thanks for replies. the complete reply by Philip tellis was very informative. Thanks Philip and Sumant Martin is also partially right because he understands the enormity of the tasks. Well The present working of the web requires that there be several pages, one in french, one in english and one in Hindi and so on. By having langcodes, we can have a singular web page. The problem is that not all languages are like Sanskrit, which I believe has been researched by Germans to be the most suitable language for computer communications. Literature may be the most difficult to translate. But company reports, simple communication can be codified. I am again not talking about codification in five languages but in thousands of languages so the task is that enormous. I am planning to start an organization for implementing this. I am sure that we are doing things in a different way now, but the web has always been a place of surprise twists and turns in strategy. Linux being one of the most popular ones. I failed to benefit for my work done on GIMP, but I do not want to see similar things for others and so The work will be part financed by me and am also looking for other partners and also hard code browser programmers. The idea requires good understanding of browser programming, list management and so on. Translators would also be required, but that can at present be left to me. Interested candidates of the list can apply for knowing how to contribute and how to benefit out of it. If we are able to translate 5000 common phrases in phase 1 we can reduce web traffic by at least 20 % and at the same time have multitudes reading the web pages. Second phase can see the target go up to fifty thousand phrases. Anand -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> for Free Tutorials, Source Codes and Other stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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HMI: Making the Browser SCADA Multilingual
by Anand 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Hello Fellow listers, I have been thinking of making the tiny browser SCADA put up at www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> multilingual, and here is the reason why: I have been planning to migrate to Canada and though the procedure is in the initial stages, I decided to learn french. Then I met an Indian at a railway station and he, looking at my french books, well, we started chatting and he informed me that in the french regions of Canada, you need to know french! I recalled similar things happening in the past in India. I once even wrote a operations manual in Marathi! Now what if say in a control room, there is a french person and un anglais! or suppose a giant corporation like shell or chevron wanted to integrate the SCADA or systems working across the globe and ensure some sort of interoperability from across the globe! Then either the entire globe has to become anglais which again is problematic. the Hindis will stick to hindi, the Arabs to arabic and french to french, japanese to japanese and chinese to chinese and so on. We need a system such that the interpretation in the various languages is automatic. I believe that having a new tags in HTML will greatly help in having multilingual support. The new tag <langcode> will give a twelve digit alphanumeric code. It will be closed by </langcode> When there is no equivalent <nolangcode alt="123456789abc" native="french"> which will mean that there is no langcode for this text. the nearest equivalent code is given and the native language or the language in which the text which has no langcode was written. this can be closed by </nolangcode> numbers inside the texts could be written by <langnumber> closed by </langnumber> Say the alarm tag is "Converter Temperature High 175.25". In french it may be "Temperature du converter haut (or grand) 175,25" {Note that since i could not get the accent signs in My linux m/c, the text is basically incorrect in french, but does convey the message} And somewhat different in German, spanish, Arabic, Hindi, Marathi and the thousands of languages across the globe. Now suppose the server or WEB PLC gives a message indicating the langcode say for example <langcode> abc123456789 <langnumber>175.25</langnumber></langcode> The browser could have the related messages for the codes stored in the language used in the particular PC and the message could be displayed in the relevant language. Detailed explaination of the working: A standards committee like say the W3C makes the langcodes. The body establishes a comprehensive list of codes for common sentences in every language. The table has the following columns: A langcode column as a primary key, The language which represents the exact meaning for this langcode, The languages columns which store the meaning for the langcode in that language, like englist(us), english(uk),french, german, hindi,arabic, persian and so on. the browser stores the langcode in the machine. The webtraffic is limited to transmitting langcodes. The browser interpretes the langcode in the native language. The user sees the text in users own native language. There are of course limitations that not every phrase could be covered, but such messages can be written with code <nolangcode alt="abc213456789" native="english"> No bhai there is no anglais code for this</langcode> Where the user sees the message in english "No bhai there is no anglais code for this" followed by "nearest Equivalent: There is no English equivalent" in native language. The browser now has to play a critical role, of converting whatever the user types to equivalent codes for transmitting. And on reciept to reconvert the messages back to text. Anand -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> for Free Tutorials, Source Codes and Other stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] TROWSERS
by Darshan.Wakchaure＠lntinfotech.com 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Hi, Thats a very good thought about TROWSERS. I certainly can put my small share for this purpose since presently I'm involved in the making of a Microbrowser(for Hand-held Devices). At present i am looking after the data structure part of CSS Rules and later rendering each element with this data. Good Day... Darshan Anand <akiyer(a)vsnl.com> Sent by: To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in linuxers-admin(a)mm.ilug- cc: bom.org.in Subject: [ILUG-BOM] TROWSERS 10/23/2001 03:34 PM Please respond to linuxers TROWSERS: Translating Browsers Thanks for replies. the complete reply by Philip tellis was very informative. Thanks Philip and Sumant Martin is also partially right because he understands the enormity of the tasks. Well The present working of the web requires that there be several pages, one in french, one in english and one in Hindi and so on. By having langcodes, we can have a singular web page. The problem is that not all languages are like Sanskrit, which I believe has been researched by Germans to be the most suitable language for computer communications. Literature may be the most difficult to translate. But company reports, simple communication can be codified. I am again not talking about codification in five languages but in thousands of languages so the task is that enormous. I am planning to start an organization for implementing this. I am sure that we are doing things in a different way now, but the web has always been a place of surprise twists and turns in strategy. Linux being one of the most popular ones. I failed to benefit for my work done on GIMP, but I do not want to see similar things for others and so The work will be part financed by me and am also looking for other partners and also hard code browser programmers. The idea requires good understanding of browser programming, list management and so on. Translators would also be required, but that can at present be left to me. Interested candidates of the list can apply for knowing how to contribute and how to benefit out of it. If we are able to translate 5000 common phrases in phase 1 we can reduce web traffic by at least 20 % and at the same time have multitudes reading the web pages. Second phase can see the target go up to fifty thousand phrases. Anand -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit www.smbd.org <http://www.smbd.org> for Free Tutorials, Source Codes and Other stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

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pppd error no. 17
by Parul Mathur 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

I have a Motorola SM56 PCI Fax Modem (internal). I am using the driver given in the PCQLinux 7.1 distro (sm56-85.1-10.i386.rpm). I have checked that the modem is working properly. I configured kppp as per the instructions given in the PCQ August issue (Pg 112, 113). The only ambiguous instruction was regarding the type of authentication used by the ISP. The options offered are PAP, CHAP, script-based and terminal-based. My ISP is VSNL and I don't have a clue what it requires so I chose terminal-based. kppp dialed into the VSNL server successfully but after a few seconds pppd died because of this error: "Error 17: The PPP negotiation failed because serial loopback was detected." What is serial loopback? What can I do to avoid this error? Thanks. Parul

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[OT] Heterogenous FireWall Proxy Server
by Mayur Joshi 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Dear Lugers, What are heterogenous firewall proxy servers? For that matter does heterogenous network environment has a fixed definition? Does a network interconnected with Linux, Windows, etc make a heterogenous network environment? In this scenario a firewall proxy server is called heterogenous firewall proxy server, I want some insight into this. Regards, Mayur _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Linuxers October 2001