Linuxers July 2006

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

102 participants
166 discussions

Re: Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at Bombay Press > Club
by bombay news 05 Jul '06

05 Jul '06

In a way, I agree with Kenneth about the disadvantages of convincing fellow journos abt the benefits of open source. Most still confuse high price with quality. But then the open source community is quite insular and has never really tried to reach out to the larger public. I hope I am able to make a small difference. Hopefully colleagues in the desk who work daily on Quark Express and Photoshop see the benefits of open source and convince cost-conscious managements to make a switch. Shiv Kumar >From: Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> >Reply-To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> >To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> >Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at >BombayPress Club >Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:09:25 +0530 > > >and although i hate to rain on the parade, it is going to be a hell of a >job convincing journalists that gimp, inkscape, scribus are the >'equivalent' of _________________________________________________________________ Tried the new MSN Messenger? Its cool! Download now. http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in

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Re: Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at Bombay Press Club
by Vic Cris 05 Jul '06

05 Jul '06

Know your audience: --- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On 05-Jul-06, at 1:47 AM, Devdas Bhagat wrote: > > > On 05/07/06 01:07 +0530, Steven Joseph wrote: > >> Hi , > >> > >> I'd be more than happy to volunteer for this, I > have not used > >> these tools but > >> i have sound knowledge of the ubuntu system. > >> > > Please stop top posting. I suspect though that > someone with more > > experience in those tools would be better in this > particular case. > > A Scribus/GIMP expert would be more suited to > answer questions than an > > Ubuntu expert (since this is going to be a rather > distro independent > > issue). > > and although i hate to rain on the parade, it is > going to be a hell > of a job convincing journalists that gimp, inkscape, > scribus are the > 'equivalent' of quark express, corel draw, adobe > illustrator ... > What makes you think that the journalists who show up for the meeting will have any knowledge of any of these apps? Either the proprietary or OSS ones? What is needed for this demo is a few slides or how-tos that show that you can do straightforward cut/paste on pictures in Gimp, and text/graphic placement in Scribus (plus create a document of up to about 150 pages), with accompanying style sheets/templates. This will take a little preparatory work, but it is in a good cause, right? Actually, since it is raining quite hard in any case, let me add my own dampening comments: the journos who show up are not going to be decision-makers on technology in their own outfits. Focus on showing them that non-proprietary and not-so-well known apps actually do work, that's all. If you can prepare some screenshots in advance, hand them out on CD so the journos will hopefully use them in their stories (ie, I hope this exercise results in stories). And carry a wooden leg: the bar at the Press Club is really very reasonably priced. Vickram ___________________________________________________________ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

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If the Beatles were hackers.
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 04 Jul '06

04 Jul '06

Eleanor Rigby (with apologies to the Beatles) Eleanor Rigby Sits at the keyboard and waits for a line on the screen Lives in a dream Waits for a signal Writing some code that will make the machine do some more Who is it for? All these lonely users, where do they all come from All these lonely users, where do they all belong Hacker Mackenzy Writing the code for a program that no one will run Its nearly done. Look at him working. Fixing the bugs late at night when there's nobody there nobody cares. All these lonely users, where do they all come from All these lonely users, where do they all belong Ahhhh.... look at all those lonely users... Ahhhh.... look at all those lonely users...

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Re: big indian banks dont allow firefox
by Roshan 04 Jul '06

04 Jul '06

> also with tables, you dont get ie problems What does this mean ? Apparently, this discussion thread can be renamed as "Browser/HTML/CSS thread" Anyways it is interesting to read each reply to this thread. __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: big indian banks dont allow firefox
by Roshan 03 Jul '06

03 Jul '06

> HTML standards compliance is absolutely unheard of > in colleges Oh! I thought, syllabi in engineering degree courses were better off as compared to the ones in UGC/university. There are a few websites of airlines like Air Deccan and Go Air, who haven't developed compliant websites. I had to use Internet Explorer for their websites! But I wonder, is it really a browser war or the rendering engine war (Trident, Gecko, Presto) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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[OT] MTNL Invalid User ID Problem
by Sameer Bagwe 03 Jul '06

03 Jul '06

Hi everybody. I work in Pune and come home to Mumbai on weekends..I wanted to check my account daytime balance and I entered my telephone no. as the user id as usual and correct password and it says Invalid User ID .. My connection is ON all bills cleared then what the heck is wrong. Also the same username/password is used on the ADSL router (PPPOE) to authenticate to the server and only then you can surf.so I guess there is a problem on their webserver. any1else with the same problem?? I know they have changed the timings for checking your account information @ register.mtnl.net.in.but I was checking when the service was available. Regards.

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[Commercial] System Engineer - Mumbai
by Animesh Singh 03 Jul '06

03 Jul '06

Mumabi - LUG, There is opening for System Engineers ( full time ) at GTL Limited. Job Skill: 1. Strong in designing and coding modules in c & c++. 2. Good knowledge and hand on BPF programming. 3. Strong in Socket programming. 4. Good in perl/shell/awk/sed scripting/programming. 5. Experience in writing linux kernel module programming. 6. Good knowledge of Linux kernel Internal ( adv. other *nix kernel ). 7. Good knowledge of Linux Device Driver Programming. Interested candidate please send e-mails on follwoing e-mail IDs: 1. mamtas(a)gtllimited.com 2. asingh(a)gtllimited.com Regards, Animesh. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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Darwin and the further evolution of FOSS
by vvcrishna＠radiophony.com 02 Jul '06

02 Jul '06

Darwin (4) Here is the crucial point. The principles of FOSS and scientific inquiry converge. In practical terms, how else can you know is what happening in your experiments? Free and open source software, open standards, best promote the scientific endeavor by mirroring its method, but also they assure that the work is accessible to the public. Freedom and openness are crucial to understanding, and foundational to the scientific endeavor, and they should not be compromised. There are a few examples of exceptions, but clearly, this matter will find further debate in the appropriate forums. We should not quell debate because a few people are offended or complaining. - From a scientific perspective that would be incorrect. On that last point, I would suggest that Apple get on the right side of the debate, and they will make tremendous headway. Now is the time. Some people will find this message annoying and divisive, and the delete button is ready at hand for them, but other people will find it interesting and engaging. All as you like. Let us not quell discussion because a few people are annoyed. Some will call this a troll, but I hope that folks will see through such name-calling. Trolls are mythological creatures, so don't believe in them. Everyone has a right to have their opinion heard, even if those opinions are divisive or unpopular. It is clear that the idea of trolls is being used to attack freedom of expression. In fact, freedom of expression demands that we listen to the so-called-trolls sometimes, and if you are civil, it helps, so don't resort to name-calling. On cross-posting; when there are matters of urgent importance that affect a broad range of subscriber lists, courtesy must sometimes take a back seat, and cross-posting is an example of that. Cross-posting is to be encouraged when the subject of the post is on topic. Each of the various lists will respond in the way that seems appropriate to the people in that forum, and the threads on the various lists will diverge accordingly. As the threads diverge, the cross-posting addresses should be removed as needed. Relevance to all people is an unattainable goal, but messages of the broadest applicability should have the broadest reach, and discussion should not be stymied because some find it irrelevant. I have given this method due consideration; it is not trolling, not spam, not off-topic, and cross-posting is an example of something that is sometimes required according to the felt importance and relevance of a given subject matter. In summary, Freedom and openness are now the bedrock of our civilization and public welfare depends on these values, so that we should actively engage ourselves in preserving and making them happen. In keeping with these principles it is crucial to note that there are exceptions to etiquette, otherwise free expression will be overly channeled, damped, and ultimately suppressed in our forums. This notion of courtesy will certainly receive additional consideration, but meanwhile, let us together get to work on the activism now. Duly, I am amenable to valid criticism and able to respond, but please reply with kindness. Obviously, feel free to write back, copy, or send these comments along to anyone else as you see fit. Regards, Michael L. Love Ph.D Department of Biophysics and Biophysical Chemistry School of Medicine Johns Hopkins University 725 N. Wolfe Street Room 608B WBSB Baltimore MD 21205-2185 Interoffice Mail: 608B WBSB, SoM office: 410-614-2267 lab: 410-614-3179 fax: 410-502-6910 cell: 443-824-3451 http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

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Darwin and the further evolution of FOSS
by vvcrishna＠radiophony.com 02 Jul '06

02 Jul '06

Darwin (3) Here is the essence of the current problem with Darwin OS. Apple replaced working boot code with the following proprietary drivers, which are required for the system to boot. Darwin-7: AppleAPIC.kext/ Applei386genericplatform.kext/ Darwin-8: AppleACPIplatform In addition the kernel (xnu) has been taken proprietary in the recent revisions. We are not asking for Apple to give away such things, but rather to continue maintaining Darwin OS as FOSS, which it already was. After repeated attempts by many FOSS developers to get this situation remedied, nothing has happened. It is now time for us to better use the measures at our disposal in order to assure that Darwin OS remains free and open. If you are unhappy that xnu and the boot drivers have not been released, I would encourage you to spread your dissatisfaction to other forums, so that Apple will take notice and commit to a workable free and open Darwin OS from now on. Moving on to coalition strategy now, some of you may not know that GNU/Linux system administration is one of my day jobs. I manage a wide range of systems. Here is a screen-shot of my work desktop, so that you can see I use the same tools at work that I use at home at night on GNU-Darwin. (weekends too, so please read I am your friend) http://proclus.gnu-darwin.org/debian.html The only time that I ever use proprietary software is when I am trying to help other users learn free and open source free software. I'm a long time Apple and GNU/Linux user, and here is the old proof doc ;-}. http://proclus.tripod.com/indulge.html Now, it is embarrassing but, I want you to have a look at my cv. http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/love/thesis/cv6.html In all my years I have never used Microsoft Windows. There are only two exceptions to this statement, where I was helping Windows users to access our servers at Hopkins. Clearly, you can get a few things done without it ;-}. One of the primary reasons for founding GNU-Darwin was to help people to put Microsoft behind them, and it is definitely possible to do it now. You have many resources at your disposal to help you leave Microsoft behind. Look at the link below to see what you can do with free software. Apple, GNU-Darwin, GNU.org, and GNU/Linux will all help, and we are largely all helping together, because we have a shared foundation of free software. http://www.gnu-darwin.org/gdc/ Microsoft is only one example. That is why we are so insistent that Apple keep true to free and open source software principles. We should ultimately try to leave all proprietary software behind us, so that we can participate fully in the freedom and openness of the internet culture and public domain. What more do we need, when we have such a rich store of information and so many capable people at our sides? Finally, as a scientist, it is obvious to me that this situation is relevant current and ongoing discussion in the scientific community, and as such, it is also clear that many members of the various lists would be interested in the current state of Darwin with respect to FOSS and with respect to science.

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Darwin and the further evolution of FOSS
by vvcrishna＠radiophony.com 02 Jul '06

02 Jul '06

Darwin (2) It is clear that scientific tools must be demonstrably and penetratingly understood, or else our claims will likely be skewed and called into question. Free and open source software is a great example of how to make your science verifiable to the public. Establishing prior art against future patents is another good one, which is precisely analogous in method, making the result explicit to the public, free and open to all. Thank goodness for the free and open software movement, which gave us such a great example of how to serve the public in this manner. I am willing to grant that there are particular exceptions to these rules of freedom and openness, and such exceptions may be relatively harmless; however, let us posit the opposite, that freedom and openness are _not_ crucial to understanding. Think of the implications. When people are compelled to learn, they do not receive the intended message. It is not understood correctly or completely. When crucial facts are withheld from the people you are trying to teach they become paranoid, possibly unteachable. Freedom and openness are obviously the best approach to understanding. This is not a metaphor for the pursuit of science, but a fact. We are learning from nature, and it is ultimately required that our tools be demonstrably and penetratingly understood, or else we will receive incorrect lessons from nature. Clearly this requires public access to the source code and more. This is why many of us are pressing for public access to scientific publications. Moreover FOSS tools are becoming ever more important to the pursuit of the scientific endeavor itself. In our biophysics department we are obsolescing proprietary hardware and software in favor of open standards and free software, which is a widespread phenomenon in the science sector, and sure to continue. We build most of the workstations ourselves with commodity hardware, but we also have some clusters running Debian and FedoraCore. Some of you will know that I am the lead developer for the GNU-Darwin distribution. GNU-Darwin has a FOSS operating system, which is getting alot of press these days. Here is an example How Apple and Microsoft are advancing desktop Linux http://www.desktopLinux.com/news/ns7294331817.html I see the article as counter-productive against building a FOSS coalition that includes democracy, freedom, and public access activists, Apple, GNU-Darwin, GNU, and GNU/Linux all linked together in spectrum. It is important to alert the whole FOSS community that Darwin cannot be classified as a free or open source operation system as of the Darwin-8 revision, because AppleACPIplatform-39 which is required to boot the system is proprietary. It is notable that only the current version of Darwin from Apple is a non-free OS. GNU-Darwin has a free version, an earlier revision that includes the source code. It is FOSS, and we call upon Apple to maintain Darwin as such, as it has been in the past. We hope that the current situation with the kernel and ACPI driver will soon be remedied so that Darwin will continue as a FOSS OS. We are asking for free software developers to please write to the *nix core of Darwin, which is the core OS for both Mac OS X and GNU-Darwin OS. Darwin OS, which underlies both systems, comprises parts from GNU, the BSD's, mach, plus Apple's substantial contributions to the free software community. Be consistent with your philosophy and avoid linkage to proprietary binaries, such as OpenGL and CoreAudio, except when it is imperatively required in order to lead users to the values of software freedom. Under that principle, another reason to maintain compatibility with the *nix core, is so that your code will be readily portable to new platforms and usable by free-software-only aficionados too. GNU-Darwin OS is not an obsolete implementation of Darwin OS, or to be superseded by Mac OS X. We are trying to lead users to freedom, not away from it. By maintaining Darwin core compatibility your code will remain valuable as the marketplace and industry continues to evolve (trust me here), particularly as DRM-related problems continue to come forward. Of course, that means releasing your source code under a FOSS license, such as APSL. Darwin OS is a free and open source operating system that is not going away, so try to focus your coding towards supporting that standard instead of proprietary software.

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Linuxers July 2006