Linuxers September 2006

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

87 participants
144 discussions

a funny insident with me, gnu/linux debate.
by krishnakant Mane 19 Sep '06

19 Sep '06

hello every one. relax and just chil out with the following real joke that took place with me on 15th. at a school where I was advocating gnu/linux over m$ with one of the "naukars of MR bil dada". I was at a function for my falisitation from my own school in dadar. the guest of honour was some one from microsoft since they donated 100 computers with windows of captivity to the school. as usual I was explaining the authorities at my school why they should not teach windows to young students and do bad sanskars on them. actually one of the dignitories MR. Nitin Shah was also an associate of redhat linux. so I had one person to speek for me as well. the ms guy started to show me down by saying you un organised geeks don't even know what Information Technology means to people. and u can only develop academic toys for college students who want to know what is an OS like. your system can't offer any thing except a toy box. I told him "sir, there was a hindi film called divar just few years back, I just transfered one of its famous dylogs into IT" MR. Bil Gaits: "mere pas word hain, excel hain, access hain, power point hain, SQL server hain, tumhre pas kya hain bolo kya hain tumhare pas!" I say "mere pas freedom hain". this just came out sponteneously and out of the box. the entire staff was in throws of laughter. and it was then that they asked me what did I say that even some one from MS can't answer. the rest is not history but will be future. enjoy. Krishnakant.

7 15

Re: Installation voes.
by Roshan 19 Sep '06

19 Sep '06

> Hello All, > > I wanted to introduce linux to an office so on a P4 > machine with Gigabyte 915 mobo and 1 GB RAM For the above configuration I would suggest trying Kubuntu 6.06 or Ubuntu 6.06. __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

1 0

Re: Linuxers Digest, Vol 41, Issue 46
by zeeshan chawdhary 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

there a website for engineering that offers Linux DVD's and CD's at nomincal charges it www.techbirbal.com

1 0

does any one know debian cd vender in Mumbai?
by krishnakant Mane 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

hello, I have a requirement of pressed cds of debian or ubuntu server. actually I tried searching the shipit web site for ubuntu server cd but they don't ship server cd. is there a way to contact ubuntu and ask for server cd with printed cover? actually I have a project on my hands where I am going to implement an erp system. the customer even after reading the gpl is not convinced that the cd I am giving will hold the same value. the old man believes that as a director he can't take a risk on this. just like the ubuntu desktop cd I gave him, he feel that if the cd for server also has a similar make and the same printed cover, it will be licensed. now I am not finding ubuntu server cds like this. so may be I will choose debian cd set. by the way I want to try out debian installation. may be jtd will help me out with instructions for tellingthe installer to install 2.6 kernel and using priority as medium so that I get to choose which components I can install. I think there are some kernel parameters to be given? regards. Krishnakant.

3 2

Royal society Journals online [OT]
by jtd 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

Nearly three and a half centuries of scientific study and achievement is now available online in the Royal Society Journals Digital Archive following its official launch this week. http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373 -- Rgds JTD

1 0

Re: Citizen Information System (CIS): A FOSS Model
by Vivek Rai 16 Sep '06

16 Sep '06

> > B. To enable the e-governance > > egov works fine even without a single identity. You need one per > department. > and have totally unnecessary duplication of systems and data.. not only will it be costlier, it will also give very little value addition, if some department for industries cannot cross reference your records from other department (law, taxes, whatever) also let us see how practical that is, total number of central government departments == a few hundred avg. number of state government departments == a few hundred (multiply this by number of states) having separate identity per department is like the old 1990's systems in big companies before LDAP.. ie, u had a separate login to each system.. today all major corporations are moving towards single sign-on for different intra company systems.

2 1

Re: Citizen Information System (CIS): A FOSS Model
by Vivek Rai 16 Sep '06

16 Sep '06

> This is sure not an academic exercise. > > We MUST design an Open Source Prototype for this and present it to the > potential customer (Government of India?). The complete system should > be practical and economically viable. > I think we need to figure out what this can be used for, before we get into other details. I can think of 2 use cases for such system 1) social or business networking (orkut, linked in types).. a more casual usage in this case, you probably want to keep its contect voluntary and open.. (ie members can put in whatever they want) If I can get your hotmail password or something else based on getting the answer to your secret question (mothers maiden name, date of birth, pets name).. it is your problem. 2) a system used by government .. ie legally binding.. ( in future, maybe other services like credit rating agencies, organizations trying to verify your identiry?).. this is more formal.. its content are deemed to be reliable by everyone.. it could be used by police across the country to track criminals.. in this case, you may keep a read-only access to the publicly avaialable info.. maybe more access to some paid subscribers (potential customers would be someone issuing a credit card, home loan, or a car loan to you and hence trying to do an identity check/credit or criminal history check on you) unique id for a citizen? well.. we dont have any unique ID so far.. US has a social security #, UK has a national Insurance #... maybe this is the major benefit of having such a system in the first place - as it can be a single identity for people having (or not having) various diverse id's .. (passport#, DL#, voter id# (for 18+), PAN# (for the few tax payers)).. why not have some biometric ID to make it really foolproof.. u can confidently say that ram ral, s/o shyam lal, living in pin code 100 020 (and with the given biometric ID details) has id 100 and has no criminal records or bad credit history.. so it is safe to lend money to him.. whereas ram lal s/o manmohan singh has defaulted on that previous loan paid to him.. in fact his current address is tihar jail.. but, then you can only design a technical framework to hold this data, and access/amend it. implementation details such as who enters and keeps on updating data would depend on sarkari babus sitting in the villages who are normally happier to exploit and harass the citizens than in serving them.

8 19

Re: Citizen Information System (CIS): A FOSS Model
by Vivek Rai 16 Sep '06

16 Sep '06

> > (as we dont have a proper centralized credit history system in India, and that hurts our economy badly) > It doesnt. i'd suggest you read this story, and then do some research. http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=140179 in summary, credit risk is higher in india for lack of identity and credit history systems. thats why penetration of so many banking products is very low.. poor people are left to borrow money from loan sharks at exhorbitant rates.. when banks lend money to the middle class, they rip us off.. in west, long term (25 yr) home loan rate is usually ~ 1% more than the central bank's base lending rate.. in india the banks (having to account for all the risks), charge much more.. (3-5% more than base rate) > > Pleeease not those two idiotic countries. ...The UK rfid passport (afair) is such a farce > that inspite of grave flaws in the scheme they are going ahead. i presume u r talking of biometric passports, this is actually now the recommended standard by ICAO.. in time, every country WILL HAVE TO move towards it.. just that some countries are more progressive. > The shooting of the south american and raids on apparantely innocent Muslims speak > volumes for conventional physical investigation. lets stick to the topic here, so please explain how some central ID scheme was behind the shooting of the brazilian guy.. ..(in fact, had the officers involved cross confirmed the address/occupant details, it probably would have saved him!) last time i checked, india was lagging far behind these "idiotic" countries on most counts of human rights and development.. forget about security forces in insurgency prone spots, mumbai police alone kills a lot of people every year in "encounters".. in fact there are so many cases, that they arent headlines anymore.. and we dont even notice or care problems at home.. and like to feel good by focusing on ONE guy shot accidently on the day they were having 2nd round of bomb attacks in london. > > Like insurance companies and? do what? they know your credit record, if u have not paid a previous debt, they are perfectly entitled to treat you as a risky customer and charge more... > > What is your concept of perfect e-governance? > > How about Citizens monitoring the government? U dont need any id for that. please elaborate more on how this wonderful idea would work.. > There is no such facility that neccesitates an id. Provide one example. (i already had.. but, since u didnt get it.. let me elaborate) First example is actually related to privacy... to access only the online data/files that I am allowed to access.. e.g. I should be able to and restricted to see a property/revenue/PF record that I am entitled to see (that has my ID as an owner).. but not YOUR property records.. if we want a "real" e-governance, where we can have online access to government files, we would need some ID to implement access control. Also, the ID can be used to submit ANY "signed" document/form/application that you may have to submit manually to a government office.. like we already have in the case of electronic tax return filing.. we could have electronic forms to report a crime, track progress.. initiate court cases.. vehicle registrations/taxes.. land/property deeds, queries/forms for pensions/provident funds... electoral rolls.. whatever u ever need a government for.. a sample of such services available to citizens of some other countries is : http://www.direct.gov.uk/Homepage/fs/en e.g, you can setup a company online in 10 minutes, and you can do ALL taxes - personal income tax, excise, customs, company tax, VAT, road tax, online.. u can even request your local council to repair a road or streetlamp online.. a gvoernment website/portal effectively becomes a services counter of a government department.. > > Oh, so the next time you go to a doctor, your identity is established by > using this card. Then the insurance comany uses the same primary key. > Then you file your tax returns. you are totally missing the point. Even if we ASSUME for a minute that that a doctor really NEEDS to verify your identity before he treats you, (since when are u having the fever? and whats your national ID? ohh your ID is 1002356? then u must have malaria) .. why does he NEED to include the fact that you had malaria on sep 14 at 2pm to THIS database? why does a doctor even need to have a write access to the CIS system? medical records have no place in a CIS.. > Oh, the threat isn't CIS itself. The threat is the creation of a primary key to identify a person everywhere. threat? yes, to the terrorists and illegal immigrants.. > Losing freedom, one bit at a time. The US and UK are good examples of repression today, not freedom. > again, thats just your view, and can be debated.. (e.g. movies, books and artists are not banned in US and UK just to have a political censorship on things that a government doesnt like) .. anyways, lets chose some other western countries....how about scandinavian countries?.. would you agree that they have a better governance than India?.. > Erm, there are no such restrictions. Also, these companies do not even > claim to maintain records properly. Have you even heard the horror > stories of people whose credit has been ruined because of identity > theft, or errors in these databases? yes, i do personally know of some such cases with my friends.. in all of them, the affected person hadnt really committed any credit fraud, (problems with a cheque, identity theft victim) .. it was straightforward to sort any problems with credit history.. if a bank or a company marks you as a credit defaulter for wrong reasons, it is that organization's responsiblity to sort it out.. you have mechanisms and safeguards in place.. on the other hand, by having credit histories, they have easier and cheaper access to financial products like mortgages. > Digital signatures would work fine, even though the government mandates a socially broken implementation. nice idea... ever heard of term "trusted CA".. and wondered what they are, why they are needed?.. > I don't know about you, but I do deal with people involved with this > stuff as part of my job. I can tell you that what you are saying is > bullshit, and it does exactly the reverse. vow! that is such a convincing argument! ;-) > It encourages identity theft, > credit fraud (against merchants rather than banks/CC companies), does > nothing for government services ... Although u havent explained how.. by your logic, having PAN numbers (which is a step towards a common ID for all taxpayers) was a bad idea, and actually increased black money circulation in our country? remember the first step to prevent money laundering if for banks to "know their customers" (i recommend you read about it) think harder, more carefully and without being paranoid before u call my ideas bullshit..

1 0

Harvard study says Linux will remain second best
by Sujeet Bhatt 15 Sep '06

15 Sep '06

A Harvard Study which uses formal economic modelling to determine "Will OSS ever displace traditional software from its market leadership position?" came to a (not so?) surprising result. Linux is likely to remain second best as long as Microsoft has a first mover advantage. http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4834.html

5 5

Re: Citizen Information System (CIS): A FOSS Model
by Vivek Rai 15 Sep '06

15 Sep '06

> > Yes, I do have things to hide. Nothing illegal, just personal stuff. can you give some specific examples of general identity data SUITABLE FOR such a system that someone may want to hide? So far, you have NOT given specific examples to explain the reason for being paranoid about this. If you don't have anything to hide, why don't you put out your medical > history, your financial information.....? I dont see how medical history is suitable for any such database.. (unless we are a nation full of 'sick' people ;-) ).. AGAIN, this CANNOT be a SECRET FILE ON EVERY DETAIL OF EVERY CITIZEN. Even for financial information, the only thing useful for CIS to keep (or help keep) would be some sort of credit history record, (as we dont have a proper centralized credit history system in India, and that hurts our economy badly) Would you be willing to be > searched randomly, because only those who have something to hide will > opposed such searches? If it is a system used to prove my credentials and credit/criminal past.. why not?.. In fact they already use such systems in UK/US etc.. You guys are forgetting that not all such information needs to be publicly available.. In the west, credit history systems CHARGE MONEY for each query that you make. Also, their are proper restrictions on their usage. If you have so much time and money that you can buy a subscription to the "full access" (meant to be for organizations like banks and police etc)... just to randomly search for details of other people.. . yes, go ahead.. Think not of how it impacts criminals, but how it impacts the innocent. by that logic, we shouldnt search air travellers before boarding the plane... 99.99% of the time, it mostly affects the innocent ... right? What is your concept of perfect e-governance? That you can download and print the forms at home, and then queue up at the government office? Or do you want to be able to submit them online too? How do you propose to implement identity verification for any such facility requiring "authorized access"? Why dont you suggest an alternative system that we can compare against? Remember, such systems are already in place in many countries. The society in these countries is doing just fine. It helps prevent identity theft, money laundering, tracks credit frauds, promotes easy financing, easy access to a lot of government services.. etc etc etc.

3 3

← Newer
1
...
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Older →

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Linuxers September 2006