What started off as a decent post by Krishnan, with me appreciating it and adding/correcting a few things, has gone bad...
NOTE: I am mailing this because Krishnan's mail contained a whole lot of direct attack, I reserve the right to counter...
Would have preferred to take it off list, but since he has chosen to make an A**e out of himself (and show his true identity), I would like to extend a helping hand for him to accomplish his objective ;-)
Please read on... :-)
on 30/7/2001 9:50 PM, S. Krishnan at sri_krishnan@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Mayuresh A Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
on 29/7/2001 11:50 AM, S. Krishnan at sri_krishnan@yahoo.com wrote:
Apple I, The first PC was launched in 1976 by Apple, it was in a Semi Assembled form. Apple II, The first really usable PC was launched in 1978 again by Apple,
I meant the IBM PC, since the Apple was never commonly referred to by the handle "PC".
That?s where you are wrong, the term PC was coined for the Apple II, because it was really a Personal Computer compared to rest of them sold in kit form, or even compared to the Apple I.
Good heavens! You mean you didn't know that it was IBM who introduced the term "PC" to the world? Till then, the Apple and its ilk were referred to either as "microcomputers" or "home computers". For your information, I've read enough old copies of Byte, Dr. Dobbs, Popular Electronics,et al (yes, I'm old enough to remember reading the launch ad of the IBM PC, featuring Charlie Chaplin), and never have I heard Apple refer to their product as a "PC". IBM introduced their product as the IBM PC. That is why even today it is called the _PC_ and the Macintosh is called a Mac but *never* a PC.
IBM wasn't even knowing what a PC is till Apple and its so called ilk introduced it, a PC is a P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R, hope you knew that...
Probably you should really read-up on history...
For your edification, I reproduce the following extract from an online encyclopaedia. It ought to gladden your heart since it speaks unfavourably of the PC in comparison to the Mac.
Things don't gladden my heart just because they speak for the Mac or against the PC, But, things when perfectly and rationally presented do go on to leave their mark...
This term and the concept has been successfully hijacked by IBM
There she blows... Hijacked indeed, hmnn...
ROM BIOS details weren't released by IBM, you had to purchase them from IBM.
You're wrong here. IBM published complete ROM BIOS listings for all their PC products in the "Technical Reference" manuals for each product. I have All it took to obtain this stuff was the $15 or so that IBM charged at that time for the Tech Ref.
You go round the circle and come back to the same point, I said, IBM didn't publish it straight away, you had to buy it from them. You said, it took $15 to obtain the PC-AT technical Reference.
Whats the difference??
If you can't understand this, I suggest that you refer to a dictionary. You had written that <Quote> ROM BIOS details weren't released by IBM, you had to purchase them from IBM. <Unquote>. It certainly looks like you did not understand what you wrote! Your sentence implied that IBM *did not* release the ROM BIOS details except under some special circumstances.
Infact, it looks like you never know what you are writing... "under some special circumstances like paying $15...", Hmnn...
My sentence implied something?? The implied part will be revisited in the next few paragraphs...
The fact that IBM had released the ROM BIOS listing as part of a freely available book certainly gives the lie to your statement that "IBM did not release the ROM BIOS details".
Whoa... OK, Krishnan, _now_ things are gonna get even more interesting... Tell me when did IBM launch the IBM PC When did they start the "so called" release of the ROM BIOS details? And after releasing the "so called" details, why did people still have to pay $15 to get the BIOS?
It took the sheer genius of the guys at a fledgling company called "Compaq" to reverse engineer that and then open it up, in fact, I would say Compaq really pioneered Open Source.
No way. The BIOS copy boys (Compaq, AMI, Award and the rest) did what are called "clean-room" implementations of the IBM PC BIOS. This means that they employed programmers who had "never" seen the IBM listings, so that IBM could not come back and point fingers at them for lifting code, and gave them the API that they had to implement, along with the full programming details of the X86 processor family, through Intel's very detailed manuals. Thus the non-IBM ROM BIOS implementations, while an excellent example of reverse engineering and pretty sophisticated coding, were not rocket science.
What is the difference between clean room implementations and reverse engineering? Do reverse engineering people get to see a piece of code?
Again, you don't seem to understand what I had written. You are quoting out of context, and wasting your aggression on non-issues. Read on....
The real problem with you Krishnan, it seems, you yourself aren't able to understand what you are writing...
You are taking conflicting stands. In the earlier part of your para you say, "No way, it wasn't reverse engineering", and in the later part you say "non-IBM ROM BIOS implementations, while an excellent example of reverse engineering..."
You seem to have a basic comprehension problem. My "no way" was against your tall claims of "sheer genius". You have yourself acknowledged that I had stated that the work was an excellent example of reverse engineering. I stand by that. Please read the post again carefully, and maybe you'll understand what I meant. Please do not flame for nonexistent reasons and/ or causes.
Now comes the implied meaning part as mentioned by you earlier... Your "no way" implies that it wasn't reverse engineering...
One thing Krishnan, you are a totally confused person with tendencies towards Multiple Personality Disorder with the added problem of a non existence of any dominant personality...
Wooo, very serious case indeed...
Infact, "Clean-Room" implementations done by virgin programmers _should_ be considered Rocket Science because they did have to start from scratch and also be compatible with IBM.
Maybe if you were a programmer, you'd understand that while it was an excellent coding effort, it certainly wasn't rocket science.
Ha ha ha... Till now I used to think you are a 'joker', But, I just realised that "you" are *a* _joke_
Me not a programmer? Probably you don't know about my past...
Reverse engineering the BIOS code, was the greatest thing to ever happen to the x86+DOS platform... It was indeed rocket science...
May I recommend a course in basic English language and comprehension for you? You had written that <Quote>
Never knew anybody opening up their Washing machines or Televisions... <Unquote>
to which I replied that I do. Please understand that opening a washing machine or television set for whatever purpose (I open them to fix them if they break) is not tantamount to manufacturing washing machines, television sets or whatever. If opening a domestic appliance and manufacturing it are the same thing in your lexicon, then I regret to inform you that your English knowledge and comprehension are pitiable, to say the least.
You are getting funnier and funnier, please refer to the context in which I said "Never knew anybody opening up..." We were discussing companies and their products not individuals and their standard computers... By opening up, I meant companies going open with their designs...
You have major perception problems... Better get yourself checked, else, as you age, you'll get even more senile than now...
I'm not going to reply to the rest of your flame,
In fact, even I would prefer not to reply to "your" stupidity, should follow the old saying... "Never argue with morons, First they'll drag you down to their own level, Then they'll beat you with eXPerience" ;-)
have replied to certain of your outbursts because I wanted to set the historical record straight, after your wilful distortions of fact and flights of fancy.
Oh, the Old Man Moz of computing, you have all the historical records we mere mortals need... (Moz appears in Phantom comics, the keeper of all stories of the Jungle of the Eastern Dark ;-)
You seem to have taken my criticism of Apple and its products as a personal slur, and have attempted - clumsily - to retaliate, in the manner of Don Quixote, who tilted at windmills in the absence of ogres. And in doing so you've ended up with your foot in your mouth.
Krishnan, It wasn't your criticism of Apple, it was rather, incorrect, and irrational presentation of the facts in an immature and disgusting way...
Foot in the mouth, hmnn... When ever I hear you talk, you always sound like someone with a Foot up the Rear...
Pathetic...
Please remember that violence, including misdirected barrages of words, is ever the last refuge of incompetents -
That¹s exactly what I wanted to tell you for a long time... "YOU ARE INCOMPETENT"
Get a life!
Life, You probably don't know what _that_ means... (after reading old copies of various magazines and storing "TV Typewriter Cookbook"... A very in-present-life person, indeed, you are... (a bit of Yoda speak ;-)
Please don't bother to reply to this post, since I have no desire to bandy words with you and waste the bandwidth of the list.
Hilarious... These last few posts of yours were absolutely hilarious, will store them for later perusal... Can be used to show somebody what being a real joker is all about...
Thanks for letting us have you as a specimen...
Warm Regards,
~Mayuresh