SOME ONE IS STARTING DVD (4) DOWNLOAD. THERE ARE 15 CDs hope others are not as confused as I am
On Monday 16 February 2009 10:59, jitendra wrote:
SOME ONE IS STARTING DVD (4) DOWNLOAD. THERE ARE 15 CDs hope others are not as confused as I am
There are 15 cds but only 5 dvds since dvds store 4.7GB single layer and cds store only 700 MB. Also i am downloading i386 and later ARMEL.
ARMEL is a new distro for cross compiling for ARM architecture - embedded systems. No more black magic creating toolchains. Even after creating cross toolchains several times, i have to do a complicated sequence of steps to get a new chain in place. ARMEL will hopefully eliminate this PITA .
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:15:20AM +0530, jtd wrote:
ARMEL is a new distro for cross compiling for ARM architecture - embedded systems. No more black magic creating toolchains. Even after creating cross toolchains several times, i have to do a complicated sequence of steps to get a new chain in place. ARMEL will hopefully eliminate this PITA .
Is it just for cross compiling? I thought it is meant for being run on machines possessing one of several ARM based processors. The "Armel" architecture replaces the old (deprecated) "arm" archiecture, since it supports the new EABI standard, and thus, is more in-line with the other "mainstream" architectures. "arm" and "armel" are not binary compatible.
Kumar
On Monday 16 February 2009 11:26, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:15:20AM +0530, jtd wrote:
ARMEL is a new distro for cross compiling for ARM architecture - embedded systems. No more black magic creating toolchains. Even after creating cross toolchains several times, i have to do a complicated sequence of steps to get a new chain in place. ARMEL will hopefully eliminate this PITA .
Is it just for cross compiling? I thought it is meant for being run on machines possessing one of several ARM based processors.
You can do that too. But the real fun is being able to write code for lots of customised hardware. Without the pain of creating toolchains. Many arm gadgets have displays, keyboards etc (cellphones, pdas and some "instanton" notebooks). But the vast majority have none of these and are used in machine control, robotics etc.
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:40:35AM +0530, jtd wrote:
You can do that too. But the real fun is being able to write code for lots of customised hardware. Without the pain of creating toolchains. Many arm gadgets have displays, keyboards etc (cellphones, pdas and some "instanton" notebooks). But the vast majority have none of these and are used in machine control, robotics etc.
I think I understand. If you don't mind letting me know, do you intend installing the Armel distribution in a virtual machine to build software, or do you have hardware on which you can install it? How do you get over the need to cross compile by using the armel architecture distribution?
Thanks.
Kumar
On Monday 16 February 2009 12:38, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:40:35AM +0530, jtd wrote:
You can do that too. But the real fun is being able to write code for lots of customised hardware. Without the pain of creating toolchains. Many arm gadgets have displays, keyboards etc (cellphones, pdas and some "instanton" notebooks). But the vast majority have none of these and are used in machine control, robotics etc.
I think I understand. If you don't mind letting me know,
Heck why would i "mind" letting you know. I am happy to talk all day about something technical.
do you intend installing the Armel distribution in a virtual machine to build software, or do you have hardware on which you can install it?
You install on a standard x86 or x86-64 machine , in a chroot. But you can use qemu to run the binary. Ofcourse if you have a arm machine (A780, NEO, etc) you could install on them. However compiling on them would not be practical due to memory, disk space and processor speed limitations.
How do you get over the need to cross compile by using the armel architecture distribution?
The $CROSS-COMPILE env variable is set. so gcc $CROSS-COMPILE - usually set in your makefile - will crosscompile for you specific arm variant. Also gdb for arm is installed, so you can debug with gdb and openocd over jtag.
Once you have done the above you can create debs of your package, do an install on a microsd, usb pendrive or nfs disk and boot. Then dpkg -i yourprog.
2009/2/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in:
I think I understand. If you don't mind letting me know,
Heck why would i "mind" letting you know. I am happy to talk all day about something technical.
I'm a bit confused here too. I hope you are not confusing it with emdebian (from what I read so far, you seem to have good experience doing it, may be I'm not able to understand it). I have had worked on armel earlier and we sed to crosscompile (used scratchbox also) then.
do you intend installing the Armel distribution in a virtual machine to build software, or do you have hardware on which you can install it?
You install on a standard x86 or x86-64 machine , in a chroot.
But don't you need qemu to run the armel binary? Or you could use crosshurd kind of thing if it there (last time I checked it allow you to install hurd-i386 and kfreebsd-i386).
How do you get over the need to cross compile by using the armel architecture distribution?
The $CROSS-COMPILE env variable is set. so gcc $CROSS-COMPILE - usually set in your makefile - will crosscompile for you specific arm variant. Also gdb for arm is installed, so you can debug with gdb and openocd over jtag.
does apt allow one to install debs of other architectures? For cross compiling you need cross compilers built for i386, right?
How is armel binaries helping here?
Either you have to use cross compilers on i386 or you have to use armel binaries on native or emulated setup.
I'm comfused about the chroot thing? Does qemu allow one to boot from chroot?
Once you have done the above you can create debs of your package, do an install on a microsd, usb pendrive or nfs disk and boot. Then dpkg -i yourprog.
- Praveen
On Monday 16 February 2009 13:56, Praveen A wrote:
2009/2/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in:
I think I understand. If you don't mind letting me know,
Heck why would i "mind" letting you know. I am happy to talk all day about something technical.
I'm a bit confused here too. I hope you are not confusing it with emdebian (from what I read so far, you seem to have good experience doing it, may be I'm not able to understand it). I have had worked on armel earlier and we sed to crosscompile (used scratchbox also) then.
do you intend installing the Armel distribution in a virtual machine to build software, or do you have hardware on which you can install it?
You install on a standard x86 or x86-64 machine , in a chroot.
But don't you need qemu to run the armel binary? Or you could use crosshurd kind of thing if it there (last time I checked it allow you to install hurd-i386 and kfreebsd-i386).
You have to use qemu.
How do you get over the need to cross compile by using the armel architecture distribution?
The $CROSS-COMPILE env variable is set. so gcc $CROSS-COMPILE - usually set in your makefile - will crosscompile for you specific arm variant. Also gdb for arm is installed, so you can debug with gdb and openocd over jtag.
does apt allow one to install debs of other architectures?
Yes but if you do that without taking extreme care you will be in a mess. Which was one of the problems that bitbake etc tried to solve.
For cross compiling you need cross compilers built for i386, right?
Yes. To clarify a cross toolset will run on X86 but use libs for arm to generate arm binaries. Thus you have two sets of libs one for the native arch and one for the cross arch and both these must be kept separate.
How is armel binaries helping here?
it is not just armel binaries, there are also crosstools too. But for packages already in armel just download and install in your arm rootfs, then burn rootfs to flash / microsd etc. Or even better on your arm machine (eg a780) apt-get install something. Unlike earlier, download source and compile for every package.
Either you have to use cross compilers on i386 or you have to use armel binaries on native or emulated setup.
I'm comfused about the chroot thing? Does qemu allow one to boot from chroot?
Afaik Yes. But i have never used qemu. I have real hardware to test on and can use jtag and printf on serial. Now i will start using gdb.
Once you have done the above you can create debs of your package, do an install on a microsd, usb pendrive or nfs disk and boot. Then dpkg -i yourprog.
- Praveen
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On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 02:29:49PM +0530, jtd wrote:
do you intend installing the Armel distribution in a virtual machine to build software, or do you have hardware on which you can install it?
You install on a standard x86 or x86-64 machine , in a chroot.
But don't you need qemu to run the armel binary? Or you could use crosshurd kind of thing if it there (last time I checked it allow you to install hurd-i386 and kfreebsd-i386).
You have to use qemu.
That clears it. In essence, you are emulating the architecture on a faster machine, where you don't have to actually "cross-compile"m but just compile.
Thanks for letting me know.
Kumar
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM, jitendra jituviju@gmail.com wrote:
THERE ARE 15 CDs
No. 31+4 CDs :) http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.0/i386/iso-cd/
No need to download all. CD-1 is enough for basic desktop. Later, you can use apt-get magic to install what you need.
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jitendra -
jtd -
Kartik Mistry -
Kumar Appaiah -
Praveen A