Throwing open a poll on the list. Replies to the list.
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
<snip when replying> Remember, this is a poll. We do not care what the list guidelines say, so please don't reply `because the list guidelines say so'. We really want to know whether the list guidelines are right, or not, and why so.
State what you think. Your own opinion. </snip when replying>
Philip
Hi,
On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Philip S Tellis wrote:
Throwing open a poll on the list. Replies to the list.
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Wrap at 60-70 cols :-)
On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:55:10 +0530 (IST) Philip S Tellis wrote:
Throwing open a poll on the list. Replies to the list.
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster
make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Wrap at 70 cols (+/- 5 as the decision may turn out).
However, - something should be done to handle URLs that often exceed the line-length. - many people are not experienced with mailing lists and newsgroups so there should be some flexibility to handle such defaulters.
I have no ideas as to what *should* be done about these. Any suggestions?
On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 06:55:10PM +0530, Philip S Tellis wrote:
Throwing open a poll on the list. Replies to the list.
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Should NOT wrap.
It's upto the displaying application to wrap at the correct place. Most people are not aware about the non-existence of newlines in their mails and the problems they can cause for some mail readers. That is because the editors they use automatically *show* the content wrapped, and they probably have absolutely no idea about "what wrapping is".
Personally, I can't read mails with long lines as my reader does not 'visually wrap' the contents :( But it's probably just some simple setting I never bothered about.
On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 06:55:10PM +0530, Philip S Tellis wrote:
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Yes ... the lines should wrap after 76 characters. Because I don't like to scroll beyond that, and editing quoted text in replies is a big headache.
Sameer.
On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 06:55:10PM +0530, Philip S Tellis wrote:
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
It should be the responsibility of mail client to display properly. No wrap.
Mutt does it very well.
On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 10:18:56AM +0530, Pankaj Jangid wrote:
It should be the responsibility of mail client to display properly. No wrap.
Mutt does it very well.
The headache starts when you try to reply and the quoted indent gets all messed up.
Sameer.
At 02:37 even 11/2/02 +0530, SS wrote:
On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 10:18:56AM +0530, Pankaj Jangid wrote:
It should be the responsibility of mail client to display properly. No wrap.
Mutt does it very well.
The headache starts when you try to reply and the quoted indent gets all messed up.
I should think it is a headache to have an user defined wraping. If I use a display of 125 columns, I get a narrow column of text to the left of the screen which is a pain to read. BTW how can a reply to an unwraped line get messed up. Your mail client should be smart 'nuff to handle that - even Eudora (a pathetic windows app) can do it and Emacs does it too.
To repeat Philip's favourite line "Get a smarter mail client".
quasi
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 16:43:57 +0530 q u a s i wrote:
left of the screen which is a pain to read. BTW how can a reply to
an unwraped line get messed up. Your mail client should be smart 'nuff to handle that - even Eudora (a pathetic windows app) can do it and Emacs does it too.
Like this. Notice just one '>' above? Several clients and web interfaces do this when they auto-wrap a long line. And before you remind me to use a "smarter" mail-client, my mailer (Sylpheed) is smart enough in whatever contexts this adjective was invoked.
You are making assumptions about the behavior of a user's mail client. Some mail clients wrap long lines, others display a horizontal scroll-bar and some simply truncate what exceeds the screen width. It would not be the"Right Thing" to tell a subscriber to use a "smart" mail client. Someone may even cat his mailbox and directly telnet to port 25 for sending mails!
Philip S Tellis wrote:
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Yes. Should *try* to make sure they wrap at 50-75 for readability sake. This should be a guideline, no rule. If a poster doesn't follow it she's simply being impolite to the group (think reputation).
Manish
At 01:58 even 11/2/02 +0530, MJ wrote:
Philip S Tellis wrote:
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Yes. Should *try* to make sure they wrap at 50-75 for readability sake. This should be a guideline, no rule. If a poster doesn't follow it she's simply being impolite to the group (think reputation).
Can you please explain to me why is readability reduced if one does not break at a particular column (wraping is not the correct word here I suppose)? A good mail client will do the wraping where you with it to. Implying impoliteness here is unfair as there is yet to be explained a good reason for breaking. An imbecile mail client is no excuse.
The only problem which I can think of is - in case of this reply for example, I suppose my lines will get wrapped at some column by you client which will introduce non quoted short lines. Well this is not my fault as if you use no line breaking then my reply will appear correct.
I have had readability problems with broken lines at arbitrary columns (no complete & efficient use of available screen space) - no problems with unbroken lines. This is using both Eudora & Emacs.
quasi
On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 04:54:10PM +0530, q u a s i wrote:
Can you please explain to me why is readability reduced if one does not break at a particular column (wraping is not the correct word here I suppose)? A good mail client will do the wraping where you with it to. Implying impoliteness here is unfair as there is yet to be explained a good reason for breaking. An imbecile mail client is no excuse.
``imbecile email client'' is a real pain when a reader does not have the option to choose his own editor within the client ... in my case, for example, when sitting on my desktop I use mutt with vim, but at other times, I have to rely on the web interface to our mail server ... I can do nothing about how the web interface behaves!
The only problem which I can think of is - in case of this reply for example, I suppose my lines will get wrapped at some column by you client which will introduce non quoted short lines. Well this is not my fault as if you use no line breaking then my reply will appear correct.
Not breaking big lines in an editor does introduce readability problems ... its really difficult to make sense of what's happening if one has to scroll horizontally. There are editors like vim which can ``wrap'' lines ... but that immediately affects navigation from line to line, and within sentences. `line' != `sentence'.
Learning to use emacs is not exactly top priority on everyone's list.
I don't understand the need for a discussion - all we are asking is for people to make a small adjustment in their mail editors, which will make life easier for a lot of people. Its a time-honoured adjustment, well-supported by lots of guidelines on netiquette.
``Go get a better <insert any tool like editor, for example>!'' That sure sounds like somethings going wrong about the spirit of the community, with a Redmond-ish touch to it.
Sameer.
q u a s i wrote:
At 01:58 even 11/2/02 +0530, MJ wrote:
Philip S Tellis wrote:
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
Yes. Should *try* to make sure they wrap at 50-75 for readability sake. This should be a guideline, no rule. If a poster doesn't follow it she's simply being impolite to the group (think reputation).
Can you please explain to me why is readability reduced if one does not break at a particular column (wraping is not the correct word here I suppose)? A good mail client will do the wraping where you with it to. Implying impoliteness here is unfair as there is yet to be explained a good reason for breaking. An imbecile mail client is no excuse.
Ok, this is readability --
# telnet mail.zycus.com 110 # Trying 209.133.112.13... # Connected to mail.zycus.com. # Escape character is '^]'. # +OK QPOP (version 3.1.2) at mail.zycus.com starting. # USER manishj # +OK Password required for manishj. # PASS XXXXXXXX # RETR 878 # +OK 2947 octets # Return-Path: linuxers-admin@mm.ilug-bom.org.in # Received: from cc4.tifr.res.in (cc4.tifr.res.in [158.144.1.20]) # by mail.zycus.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30773 # for <manishj AT zycus DOT com>; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:42:34 -0800 #
<snip headers>
# # On 02/11/02 21:33 +0530, Shishir wrote: # > One of my colleagues used to get a lot of spam and I had recommended her to # > use Spam Punisher from http://www.spampunisher.com/ This software allows you # > to send complaints to relevant authorities too. # > # > That did reduce her spam by almost 80%. # > # > No harm trying out the trial version. # http://www.icauce.org/ # Just run your own mailserver and apply your own spam blocks. # Start with using ordb and spews, followed by amavisd-new (a/v + # spamassassin). # # Devdas Bhagat #
I know this going a little too far but there are all sorts of mail clients out there.
Manish
First, I dont know how I can wrap the lines at a particular column. I use M$ OE6. I cant find any such option in the software.
Regards Saswata
----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip S Tellis" philip@konark.ncst.ernet.in To: "LIG" linux-india-general@lists.sourceforge.net; "Linux Users" linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:55 PM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] [POLL] #posting_strategies: Long lines
Throwing open a poll on the list. Replies to the list.
When posting a message on a mailing list, should the original poster make sure his lines wrap at a particular column, or not? If yes, which column? If yes, or no, why?
<snip when replying> Remember, this is a poll. We do not care what the list guidelines say, so please don't reply `because the list guidelines say so'. We really want to know whether the list guidelines are right, or not, and why so.
State what you think. Your own opinion. </snip when replying>
Philip
-- There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation. -- W.C. Fields
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
First, I dont know how I can wrap the lines at a particular column. I use M$ OE6. I cant find any such option in the software.
And I thought Microsoft software was user-friendly.
Anyway, I remember with OE5 the option was in (Tools > Options > Send > Plain text settings > Automatically wrap at [76] characters).
Manish
Thanks,
You are right, the settings are still there. In fact, I think that is the default setting. I guess it is user-friendly if it has the correct setting and I didnt even know. : =)
Regards Saswata
----- Original Message ----- From: "Manish Jethani" manishj@zycus.com To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [POLL] #posting_strategies: Long lines
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
First, I dont know how I can wrap the lines at a particular column. I use M$ OE6. I cant find any such option in the software.
And I thought Microsoft software was user-friendly.
Anyway, I remember with OE5 the option was in (Tools > Options > Send > Plain text settings > Automatically wrap at [76] characters).
Manish
If you prefer using MSOE, the option is -
Tools -> Options -> Send -> Plain Text Settings -> Automatically Wrap at __.
Regards, Shishir
----- Original Message ----- From: "q u a s i" quasar@vsnl.net To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [POLL] #posting_strategies: Long lines
At 03:22 even 11/2/02 +0530, Saswata wrote:
First, I dont know how I can wrap the lines at a particular column. I use M$ OE6. I cant find any such option in the software
If you use windows, you may consider Eudora. Or even Emacs. OE can act like a trojan horse
quasi
On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 03:22:44PM +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
First, I dont know how I can wrap the lines at a particular column. I use M$ OE6. I cant find any such option in the software.
There indeed is such an option in OE ... remember seeing it a long time ago. You just aren't looking in the right place ...
Sameer.
-
Dinesh Shah -
Manish Jethani -
Pankaj Jangid -
Philip S Tellis -
q u a s i -
Ravindra Jaju -
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe -
Saswata Banerjee & Associates -
Shishir -
Tahir Hashmi