Hi
Hey why are we all putting huge efforts to prove something which not in our hand this just pure wastage of time and costly productive man hours as well as Bandwidth.
To prove Linux can gain place on common desktop we need to prove that Linux OS is user friendly and to use it as operating system is not a big deal.
Logically arriving at conclusion which can prevent this from happening
1 for all the common people the words used like kernel, security, update kernel, access to file system, hacking, worms and troajans Are like out of the world. They dont look for all this when they go and buy a pc for them self. What they look for is how easy it is to use in daily life without much knowledge of pc or operating system.
DO WE have this in Linux and I say BIG NO this is not the case. Dont look from your angle try to be on other side and you will find the better justifications for the BIG NO.
2 take example of top senior executives of any organization or any senior bureaucrats they dont have enough time to go and learn something new they are happy with what they have on their desktop so if they can not change then how we are going to change common people.
For this you need very high level of efforts to migrate them to something of the same wave length and similar interface.
3 today you say MS is making lot of money from their product I dont understand why this kind of presumption should come across. Check last 15 years of IT industries and try to understand basic business model of all the big IT Company. They have done same things but ball game was different.
One of the biggest money makers in that time was on the same track at that time. You know it and I dont want to name it. All the proprietary work use to drag you in the same black hole. sale product at low cost and then cut them in support, what is this dont you think same game but with different attitude.
Today if some company is investing n billion dollars in R&D of Linux do you think that work will remain open source? NO I dont think so it will become their technology and they will sell it to recover as well as make n+1 out of n so this is business and every thing is fair as long as you can make money.
Today MS is ruling the business as they want. this is because they dont have competitor to stop them doing this. Why Novell Netware failed to sustain their popularity, may be because they could not keep their technology to the mark what users really wanted. At one time there was major Demand of CNE and major public were certified so there was no one to beat Novell on the ground level and MS was in business of desktop marketing and not in server marketing. But still they took chance and introduced windows server product and then see how fast they have improved their technology in just second or 3rd major released of WINNT 4.0 and Novell was almost out of the demand this is not a joke you need to have lot of things to do this. I am throwing light on this because industries have never taken much needed lesson from this.
MS can not stop any individual scholar from his development the way Mr. Linus has given us LINUX. Or neither they can stop any big organization from developing their operating system. But all are wasting their time in fighting MS in legal battle and not investing their time and money in developing something which can fight in market with all the needed things at ground level.
Today if MS is making money then they are also providing fruit to lots of people just go in market and see how many developer are really working on open source/other project and how many are working on MS platform you will come to know why MS is more successful in business than others. I know their not giving chance to other products to prove but at the end if you or I own Microsoft would have been done the same things what they are doing.
It is very easy to become number one but it is very difficult to maintain that position for long
I am not at all a person who is pushing MS but rather I am a person who tries to understand the phenomena. 70% of the people in our LUG member must be using MS as a prime factor do they can assure you to migrate to Linux in next 3 month and I say they can not because there are lot of supporting application running which needs to be migrated on linux so guys this is not that easy.
Do not take me other way I am not a person who sticks to one particular standard I am working on all the platforms that is Sun-Solaris, HP-UX, SCO-Unix, FreeBSD, AIX, Linux and MS. But our industry is a customer driven, so out 10 projects I am doing 7 are on MS platform.
I was been very happy to see lots of mail have been exchanged on this topic and that triggered me to write the root cause of the problem.
If at all I hurt you in any or part of the mail then I am sorry but take this positively and think what we should do to make linux more popular rather then abusing something which is beyond our control.
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On Wednesday 08 January 2003 05:49 am, viki p wrote:
Logically arriving at conclusion which can prevent this from happening
Sounds like a great idea.
1 for all the common people the words used like kernel, security, update kernel, access to file system, hacking, worms and troajans Are like out of the world. They don't look for all this when they go and buy a pc for them self. What they look for is how easy it is to use in daily life without much knowledge of pc or operating system. DO WE have this in Linux and I say BIG NO this is not the case.
I say an even BIGGER YES. Just pick up RH 8 and you will know what I am talking about. Linux as an operating system has, IMO, surpassed the ease of use of Windows. The biggest factor that prevents Linux from taking control of the desktop market is the fact that almost everybody is so used to the Microsoft Windows way of doing things that other approaches look frightening to them. To such people "kernel" sounds scary but "virus" sounds routine. So if you were to give a computer newbie a copy of RH 8 and Windows XP and ask him to install it and use it by himself, while asking questions when necessary, I think the Red Hat install would be far easier for the newbie. Infact, there was an article sometime back on Newsforge where one sys-admin actually did that and reached the same conclusions as I suggested.
One of the biggest money makers in that time was on the same track at that time. You know it and I don't want to name it.
Actually, I dont. I was only 3 years old 15 years back :).
Today if some company is investing "n" billion dollars in R&D of Linux do you think that work will remain open source? NO I don't think so it will become their technology and they will sell it to recover as well as make n+1 out of n so this is business and every thing is fair as long as you can make money.
uh, huh? Take a look at IBM and its international push for Linux and Open Source. http://www-1.ibm.com/linux/
Today MS is ruling the business as they want. this is because they don't have competitor to stop them doing this.
Which makes Microsoft a monopoly, and therefore BAD. Infact its easy to prove with some basic Economics knowledge that societal benefit goes down if an industry is monopolized. Therefore, if one wishes to have a society driven by free markets, and thus Capitalism, it would be in the best interest of the country to not have a monopoly.
But all are wasting their time in fighting MS in legal battle and not investing their time and money in developing something which can fight in market with all the needed things at ground level.
Those people are fighting for the benefit of society, and for their rights. Anti-trust acts make tying of products illegal and MS does exactly that by tying IE with Windows. Therefore, these people are fighting for their rights, which, IMO, is NOT a waste of time.
Today if MS is making money then they are also providing fruit to lots of people just go in market and see how many developer are really working on open source/other project and how many are working on MS platform you will come to know why MS is more successful in business than others. I know their not giving chance to other products to prove but at the end if you or I own Microsoft would have been done the same things what they are doing.
Hmm. Very interesting. I would really love to know if there are some statistics which provide an accurate breakdown of developers working in OSS and Closed SS. But i doubt such stats exist. :(
I am not at all a person who is pushing MS but rather I am a person who tries to understand the phenomena. 70% of the people in our LUG member must be using MS as a prime factor do they can assure you to migrate to Linux in next 3 month and I say they can not because there are lot of supporting application running which needs to be migrated on linux so guys this is not that easy.
I cant speak for the rest of LUG. But I for one use Windows less than 1 day in a month. I do all my work in Linux. Be it scientific computation, programming, cd burning, mp3 playing or watching movies ;) The only occasion I use Windows is when i reboot after about 20 days and GRUB pops up with an option saying "WindowsXP". At such times, I feel sympathetic for MS and boot into Windows only to boot out of it within an hour. :P
Do not take me other way I am not a person who sticks to one particular standard I am working on all the platforms that is Sun-Solaris, HP-UX, SCO-Unix, FreeBSD, AIX, Linux and MS. But our industry is a customer driven, so out 10 projects I am doing 7 are on MS platform.
Glad to hear that. The LUG is always open for a good debate, and as long as the person is making (or sincerely trying to make) some valid points, he/she will be most welcome.
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:19:48 +0530 viki p wrote:
a pc for them self. What they look for is how easy it is to use in daily life without much knowledge of pc or operating system.
While it's nice to have an OS that let's people work without them having to know a lot of technical stuff, but it's weird to expect people to start using a PC without even going through a "getting started" manual. Heck, I even read the manual of my new toaster!
The steady stream of stories on /. etc. on how non-techies have done things like simply fulfilling all their basic needs like Internet access etc., to advanced stuff like using LTSP at home is enough testimony to the fact that Linux is quite usable by average non-techie home users.
2 take example of top senior executives of any organization or any senior are happy with what they have on their desktop so if they can not change then how we are going to change common
Depends on how well you convince them. My brother convinced the teachers in his school to let him install Linux in the lab just because he did all his programs in ANSI/ISO C++ and submitted a PDF document done in LaTeX as his project report. You gotta know what your seniors want.
For this you need very high level of efforts to migrate them to something of the same wave length and similar interface.
Many times people overlook the fact that the cost/effort of migration is not due to some lacking in Linux but because of extensive measures that Microsoft takes to effect lockin. Is there any platform that is easier to migrate to from MS Windows than Linux is?
I guess the longer people stick to MS, the more difficult they're making their path to migration. And there would be some who can never make it. There are people running huge business applications on legacy IBM mainframes. We all remember the temporary spurt in requirements for COBOL programmers in the closing years of 20th century to fix the Y2K bug in such systems.
understand why this kind of presumption should come across. Check last 15 years of IT industries and try to understand basic business model of all the big IT Company. They have done same things but ball game was different.
One of the biggest money makers in that time was on the same track at that to drag you in the same black hole. sale product at low cost and then cut attitude.
become their technology and they will sell it to recover as well as make n+1 out of n so this is business and every thing is fair as long as you can make money.
True. People are able to percieve this, yet they are not ready to switch, rather allowing themselves to be bled off hard earned money.
have competitor to stop them doing this. Why Novell Netware failed to sustain their popularity, may be because they could not keep their technology to the mark what users really wanted.
AFAIK, Novell lost out because they had stopped responding to customers' requirements. But I don't have much experience and this comes from what I've read about Novell's downfall.
MS can not stop any individual scholar from his development the way Mr. Linus has given us LINUX. Or neither they can stop any big organization from developing their operating system. But all are wasting their time in fighting MS in legal battle and not investing their time and money in developing something which can fight in market with all the needed things at ground level.
While they can not stop new development, they can, and have, stifled the chances of competing software reaching the market. Which is all that the various lawsuits are about. To let things get to the market, Microsoft's dominance has to be weakened.
Today if MS is making money then they are also providing fruit to lots of people just go in market and see how many developer are really working on open source/other project and how many are working on MS platform you will come to know why MS is more successful in business than others. I know their not giving chance to other products to prove but at the end if you or I own Microsoft would have been done the same things what they are doing.
That's the effect of monopoly. Breaking of the monopoly won't lead to a reduction in available technology jobs. It's not very difficult to understand that there would be more developers for a platform that sells more. It's not that MS has created all those jobs. It's that people chose to develop on MS platform since it was successful.
I am not at all a person who is pushing MS but rather I am a person who tries to understand the phenomena. 70% of the people in our LUG member must be using MS as a prime factor do they can assure you to migrate to Linux in next 3 month and I say they can not because there are lot of supporting application running which needs to be migrated on linux so guys this is not that easy.
Again, that's an effect of lock-in. BTW, quite a number of LUG members use Linux exclusively. I am one of them.
AFA porting applications is concerned, who is to port the applications? Take the case of Photoshop by Adobe. It's a closed source software, so none of the FS hackers can port it. What they did was, develop an alternative- The GIMP. For every person there is that claims the GIMP to be equivalent or better than Photoshop, there are two to cry hoarse that Photoshop is not available on Linux. The FS developers have done what they could and done it well. Film Gimp, a fork of the Gimp with additional facilities for motion picture editing is now the de facto standard on the desktops of Hollywood's computer graphic artists. If people want Photoshop on Linux, they should go to Adobe. You might be aware that Acrobat Reader is now available for Linux.
but take this positively and think what we should do to make linux more popular rather then abusing something which is beyond our control.
In a game played by many players, there are some players that handle defense and some that handle attack. A game is won with a good performance on both the fronts. A lot many members of ILUG-Bom have done good constructive work for spreading the cause of Free Software and are doing ever more. /me mostly rants :p
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Bhargav Bhatt -
Tahir Hashmi -
viki p