The Times of India - Saturday 16 June - has an article about Mundu - the first Instant Messenger that can handle "all" the protocols, and allows communication between people on different protocols.
Three things I don't get.
1. If they are the first, then what are everybuddy and jabber? 2. If they handle all the protocols, then why don't they handle jabber, zephyr and irc? 3. I don't understand how they allow communication between people on different protocols. Has anyone used mundu? As far as I can figure out, in order to send a message on MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, AIM or anything for that matter, you must have an account with that service. If you do have an account, then where does the cross protocol communication come up?
If they do in fact support cross protocol communication, then good for them.
Either way, I'm tired of uninformed reporters overlooking open source software once again. What we really need is education of the media. Any ideas?
Philip
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Philip S Tellis wrote: |1. If they are the first, then what are everybuddy and jabber?
Does everybuddy allow you to communicate with a yahoo user even if you don't have a Yahoo id? I have not used them.
|3. I don't understand how they allow communication between people on |different protocols. Has anyone used mundu? As far as I can figure |out, in order to send a message on MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, AIM or anything for |that matter, you must have an account with that service. If you do have |an account, then where does the cross protocol communication come up?
They specifically say that it allows you to communicate even if you don't have an account.
|Either way, I'm tired of uninformed reporters overlooking open source |software once again. What we really need is education of the media. |Any ideas?
This is a serious problem. Few days back there was a report in TOI saying that Larry Elisson made a speech at Yale university about the futility of university degrees. A quick search in google will reveal that this was a hoax. At present, "Letters to the editor" seems to be the only way to educate the media.
regards, Vijil
Sometime yesterday, Philip S Tellis wrote:
The Times of India - Saturday 16 June - has an article about Mundu - the first Instant Messenger that can handle "all" the protocols, and allows communication between people on different protocols.
I'll try to clear some of your doubts by giving you first hand information about the thing. I was one of the developers on this project (I quit in January this year). Read on.
- If they are the first, then what are everybuddy and jabber?
Mundu is NOT the first. It's the last (hopefully). Everybuddy and Jabber offer the same services for free speech and free beer.
Everybuddy does not have a Windows client, so a Delhi-based company (I can't remember the name) ripped the Everybuddy source code and built a Win32 GUI on top of it. They called it Messenger A2Z, and sold it to MantraOnline. The Everybuddy guys, in suspicion, ran `strings' over it only to find out that it was made up of Everybuddy code. When the company was contacted by Everybuddy, the guys pretended they had no clue what was happening. Finally, they agreed to release Messenger A2Z under the GNU GPL. I don't know what's happened since. There was an article about this on Slashdot in December last year.
Now I know that the libyahoo code was being used in the prototype version of Mundu. It would be nice to know whether their codebase still includes libyahoo. If it does, they're supposed to have their product GPL'ed under the terms of the libyahoo license (GPL). Are we going to see GPL go to court in India? Maybe I should talk to Ben Rigas (one of the Everybuddy developers).
- If they handle all the protocols, then why don't they handle
jabber, zephyr and irc?
They DON'T handle `all' protocols. Simple.
- I don't understand how they allow communication between people on
different protocols. Has anyone used mundu? As far as I can figure out, in order to send a message on MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, AIM or anything for that matter, you must have an account with that service. If you do have an account, then where does the cross protocol communication come up?
I have used Mundu (Indiatimes Messenger, that is). It's a beta version and was a major goof up when Times Computing published the link for download (and it was deep within the site, not meant for download). So I am one of the few people who managed to download it (and they'll hate me for this ;-) ).
In order to send a message to an MSN user, you need an MSN (passport, hotmail) account. Same with Yahoo. Same with ICQ and AIM.
Now something interesting. The so called ``cross-protocol'' communication is achieved like this -- you have an MSN ID (a@msn), a Yahoo ID (a@yahoo) and a Mundu ID (a@mundu). You have one friend on MSN (b@msn) and one on yahoo (c@yahoo). Whatever messages you get from b@msn, you relay them to c@yahoo. It's your wish what you want to do. Basically you are spamming c@yahoo with b@msn's messages, sometimes (when the program goofs up). This whole thing gives the impression that b@msn is talking to c@yahoo. Serves good as a marketing tool. Doesn't work in real life (try it!).
If they do in fact support cross protocol communication, then good for them.
Okay, they DON'T. ;-)
Either way, I'm tired of uninformed reporters overlooking open source software once again. What we really need is education of the media. Any ideas?
Yes. Times of India is illiterate. Indiatimes.com is India's worst portal. TOI misuses its power by giving incorrect information to unsuspecting readers for the sake of promoting their brands (Yahoo! Search vs. Indiatimes Search, Mundu Messenger cross-protocol, etc.).
You can never have TOI promote Everybuddy because it's against their policy (who'll take Indiatimes Messenger then?!). The solution is to stop blindly believing all that is written in the newpapers (and educate your friends also about it). TOI is selling you lot of lies everyday. Don't buy them.
Manish
Hi:
1. There is a lot of misunderstanding in the media about technology, and given their zeal to represent news in a manner that will be understandable by the lay folk, and to fit in all the news and all the ads, a lot of what gets written is a bit off the mark, despite the companies best attempt to represent itself truthfully.
(I believe that there is a very short gap between the company proclaiming that it is the first _commercial_ interconnect service, and the news paper printing that the company is the first service.
And also the company saying that we interoperate with all _commercially important_ protocols and someone writing all protocols.)
This is just conjecture, maybe the company did misrepresent itself, but you get the point. And I am in no way affiliated with the company, I'm really a COMPETITOR (see www.mcommunicator.com) But I've been there, and know what it is like.
2. What is more surprising is that there is no information about this company anywhere on the net. That's a bit shady wouldn't you say. For an internet products company that too?
I have tried all the major search engines, (and after reading the LUG) even been thru most of India times. But no info. Does anyone know if this company has a website, or if this company allows free (trial?) downloads of its software?
Manish... I'm sure you would know. Do they have a website, what is the address?
-Vaibhav
-----Original Message----- [mailto:linuxers-admin@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of Manish Jethani
Sometime yesterday, Philip S Tellis wrote:
The Times of India - Saturday 16 June - has an article about Mundu - the first Instant Messenger that can handle "all" the protocols, and allows communication between people on different protocols.
I'll try to clear some of your doubts by giving you first hand information about the thing. I was one of the developers on this project (I quit in January this year). Read on.
- If they are the first, then what are everybuddy and jabber?
Mundu is NOT the first. It's the last (hopefully). Everybuddy and Jabber offer the same services for free speech and free beer.
Everybuddy does not have a Windows client, so a Delhi-based company (I can't remember the name) ripped the Everybuddy source code and built a Win32 GUI on top of it. They called it Messenger A2Z, and sold it to MantraOnline. The Everybuddy guys, in suspicion, ran `strings' over it only to find out that it was made up of Everybuddy code. When the company was contacted by Everybuddy, the guys pretended they had no clue what was happening. Finally, they agreed to release Messenger A2Z under the GNU GPL. I don't know what's happened since. There was an article about this on Slashdot in December last year.
Now I know that the libyahoo code was being used in the prototype version of Mundu. It would be nice to know whether their codebase still includes libyahoo. If it does, they're supposed to have their product GPL'ed under the terms of the libyahoo license (GPL). Are we going to see GPL go to court in India? Maybe I should talk to Ben Rigas (one of the Everybuddy developers).
- If they handle all the protocols, then why don't they handle
jabber, zephyr and irc?
They DON'T handle `all' protocols. Simple.
- I don't understand how they allow communication between people on
different protocols. Has anyone used mundu? As far as I can figure out, in order to send a message on MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, AIM or anything for that matter, you must have an account with that service. If you do have an account, then where does the cross protocol communication come up?
I have used Mundu (Indiatimes Messenger, that is). It's a beta version and was a major goof up when Times Computing published the link for download (and it was deep within the site, not meant for download). So I am one of the few people who managed to download it (and they'll hate me for this ;-) ).
In order to send a message to an MSN user, you need an MSN (passport, hotmail) account. Same with Yahoo. Same with ICQ and AIM.
Now something interesting. The so called ``cross-protocol'' communication is achieved like this -- you have an MSN ID (a@msn), a Yahoo ID (a@yahoo) and a Mundu ID (a@mundu). You have one friend on MSN (b@msn) and one on yahoo (c@yahoo). Whatever messages you get from b@msn, you relay them to c@yahoo. It's your wish what you want to do. Basically you are spamming c@yahoo with b@msn's messages, sometimes (when the program goofs up). This whole thing gives the impression that b@msn is talking to c@yahoo. Serves good as a marketing tool. Doesn't work in real life (try it!).
If they do in fact support cross protocol communication, then good for them.
Okay, they DON'T. ;-)
Either way, I'm tired of uninformed reporters overlooking open source software once again. What we really need is education of the media. Any ideas?
Yes. Times of India is illiterate. Indiatimes.com is India's worst portal. TOI misuses its power by giving incorrect information to unsuspecting readers for the sake of promoting their brands (Yahoo! Search vs. Indiatimes Search, Mundu Messenger cross-protocol, etc.).
You can never have TOI promote Everybuddy because it's against their policy (who'll take Indiatimes Messenger then?!). The solution is to stop blindly believing all that is written in the newpapers (and educate your friends also about it). TOI is selling you lot of lies everyday. Don't buy them.
Manish
--
Sometime yesterday, Vaibhav Arya wrote:
There is a lot of misunderstanding in the media about technology, and [snip] despite the companies best attempt to represent itself truthfully.
So you really think companies try to represent themselves truthfully? I don't think so. Not even the open source guys (I've had bad experiences here too).
(I believe that there is a very short gap between the company proclaiming that it is the first _commercial_ interconnect service, and the news paper printing that the company is the first service.
I don't know about other instances, but in this one both the company and the newspaper are equally guilty. They're both there to make money out of it.
And also the company saying that we interoperate with all _commercially important_ protocols and someone writing all protocols.)
Ya right. But you see the marketing guys are going to leave the ``commercially important'' out.
What is more surprising is that there is no information about this company anywhere on the net. That's a bit shady wouldn't you say. For an internet products company that too?
Shady indeed. My reason no. 210 for parting ways. ;-)
I have tried all the major search engines, (and after reading the LUG) even been thru most of India times. But no info. Does anyone know if this company has a website, or if this company allows free (trial?) downloads of its software?
The company web site -- http://www.geodesic.org/ (or maybe this will work) -- http://geodesic.org/
The project web site -- http://www.mundu.com/ (note, there's no info about the messenger)
My page on the site ;-) -- http://www.mundu.com/manish/ (outdated, don't rely on the contact info)
As you can see, they haven't even deleted my page from there. And yes, there's no info on the web about the co. because it has preferred to be in stealth mode.
Manish
You seem pretty sure that the company was guilty.
However, I always believe that 'innocent until proven guilty'.
Also, about TOI. I believe that this is their practice. And they are open and blatant about it.
More importantly, a general Q:
Why do we expect our newspapers to support their competition?? and why do we deem it unethical if they refuse to promote competition?
Is being a newspaper any different from being a magazine, a tv show, or for that matter a website? We would not expect the rest to carry stories about their competition. Why be mortified if a newspaper says that they don't want to print your story because they don't like your face?
Anybody?
I believe that being a private enterprise they should have all the right to what they like. (ALSO, the GOVT should abolish all subsidies to them, just because they are newspapers, or alternatively extend this to all kinds of media. (the internet especially ;-))
-V
PS: Thanx for the website. Even though I am not any wiser than before. Can I say that the site was content-free? would you agree?
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:linuxers-admin@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of Manish Jethani
Sometime yesterday, Vaibhav Arya wrote:
There is a lot of misunderstanding in the media about technology, and [snip] despite the companies best attempt to represent itself truthfully.
So you really think companies try to represent themselves truthfully? I don't think so. Not even the open source guys (I've had bad experiences here too).
(I believe that there is a very short gap between the company proclaiming that it is the first _commercial_ interconnect service, and the news paper printing that the company is the first service.
I don't know about other instances, but in this one both the company and the newspaper are equally guilty. They're both there to make money out of it.
And also the company saying that we interoperate with all _commercially important_ protocols and someone writing all protocols.)
Ya right. But you see the marketing guys are going to leave the ``commercially important'' out.
What is more surprising is that there is no information about this company anywhere on the net. That's a bit shady wouldn't you say. For an internet products company that too?
Shady indeed. My reason no. 210 for parting ways. ;-)
I have tried all the major search engines, (and after reading the LUG) even been thru most of India times. But no info. Does anyone know if this company has a website, or if this company allows free (trial?) downloads of its software?
The company web site -- http://www.geodesic.org/ (or maybe this will work) -- http://geodesic.org/
The project web site -- http://www.mundu.com/ (note, there's no info about the messenger)
My page on the site ;-) -- http://www.mundu.com/manish/ (outdated, don't rely on the contact info)
As you can see, they haven't even deleted my page from there. And yes, there's no info on the web about the co. because it has preferred to be in stealth mode.
Manish
On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Vaibhav Arya wrote:
Is being a newspaper any different from being a magazine, a tv show, or for that matter a website? We would not expect the rest to carry stories about their competition. Why be mortified if a newspaper says that they don't want to print your story because they don't like your face?
Newspapers have traditionally been considered more reliable than rest of the media. Further, within the newspapers themselves, some may be considered more reliable than others. TOI, it appears, is more interested in sensationalism than accurate reporting of facts. Nobody is asking TOI to carry an article on say Everbuddy or Jabber. But is it too much too expect them to abstain from making false claims such as the ones they have made in the article?
I believe that being a private enterprise they should have all the right to what they like. (ALSO, the GOVT should abolish all subsidies to them, just because they are newspapers, or alternatively extend this to all kinds of media. (the internet especially ;-))
I believe in freedom of the press too, but that should be counterbalanced by accountability. The press is too powerful a weapon to go unchecked in a country like India where the press is subject to extreme political pressures.
The idea behind susidising newspapers is to ensure that everyone has access to information cheaply and efficiently. As far as subsidies go, they are truly required in an underdeveloped country like India. While major players like TOI may be able to survive even without subsidies, smaller (regional) newspapers cannot. Hence the subsidies on newsprint, sales tax, etc...
-YoGeSh
[p.s: No, i'm _not_ a commie :-) ]
While on this topic, I would like to point out my personal experience with TOI. They had blatantly agreed on the fact that they do not publish competitor information in any of their media. I was associated with an entertainment site, a close competitor to filmfare. While other publications had press releases and snaps printed regularly about the site, TOI told us straight in our face that its a matter of company policy that they cannot provide coverage on account of us being their competitor.
There business ethics were clear to us then :)
There are few more instances of their business ethics, but I believe this isnt the right platform to discuss that. :-)
Regards, Ninad
P.S. Isnt this the same newspaper which had recently printed about putting "fireballs" in place in a frontpage news item of an Indian defence site "hacked" sometime last month? ;-)
At 01:22 AM 6/17/01 +0530, you wrote:
Yes. Times of India is illiterate. Indiatimes.com is India's worst portal. TOI misuses its power by giving incorrect information to unsuspecting readers for the sake of promoting their brands (Yahoo! Search vs. Indiatimes Search, Mundu Messenger cross-protocol, etc.).
You can never have TOI promote Everybuddy because it's against their policy (who'll take Indiatimes Messenger then?!). The solution is to stop blindly believing all that is written in the newpapers (and educate your friends also about it). TOI is selling you lot of lies everyday. Don't buy them.
Manish
-
E C Vijil -
Manish Jethani -
Ninad Gupte -
Philip S Tellis -
Vaibhav Arya -
Yogesh Ginde