*Minutes of February GLUG-Meet @ HBCSE*
The GNU/Linux Users Group of Mumbai held its February GLUG meet on 19th February 2006 at HBCSE, Mankhurd. Meet was attended by about 25 people coming from all over the city. This meet consisted more of technical sessions with handson demonstrations.
Following talks were held.
* Backup and restoring
We started with a talk about backup and restore of data. We saw the demonstration on how one can use the utilities like tar/cp/rsync to create incremental/differential backups.
* Professional Certifications - By Mr. Shankar Iyer (RedHat)
Shankar talked about the value of professional certifications in today's scenario, and the various certifications available from RedHat for upcoming professionals.
--- tea break :-)
* LaTeX document preparation system - By Ms. Meena (HBCSE)
Meena talked about the oldest and best document preparations system availabe, LaTeX. Starting with few simple examples demonstrating the basic text formatting capabilities of LaTeX, we moved on to see how good LaTeX is at rendering mathematical equations, creating books, thesis, letters etc.
LaTeX sources of examples covered in the talk are available here: http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/lug-meetings/Feb-2006/latex-examples.tar.gz
---- *Details of next GLUG meet*
Date: To be decided -> Agenda : Talk on Qt/KDE development -> Location: To be decided
* Pictures: Pictures taken in this meet have been posted on ILUG-BOM picture gallery ``http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/''.
Anurag
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:56, Anurag wrote:
*snip*
*Details of next GLUG meet*
Date: To be decided -> Agenda : Talk on Qt/KDE development -> Location: To be decided
- Pictures:
Pictures taken in this meet have been posted on ILUG-BOM picture gallery ``http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/''.
A good meet indeed. Must complement Ms.Meena once more for the informative presentation / hands on demo of LaTeX.
I have one suggestion. Next time please enable red-eye correction on the digicam. There are too many red eyes in those photographs :)
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:56, Anurag wrote:
*snip*
- Pictures:
Pictures taken in this meet have been posted on ILUG-BOM picture gallery ``http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/''.
So I am pretty sure that the gentleman in this picture in the first row, second from left is JTD. true? false? :) http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=...
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On 2/21/06, Abhishek Daga abhishekdaga@yahoo.com wrote:
So I am pretty sure that the gentleman in this picture in the first row, second from left is JTD. true? false? :) http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=...
Nope. First row first is Pradeepto, third is Dinesh Shah and the fourth is Nagarjuna G.
--> Vinayak H
Vinayak Hegde wrote:
Nope. First row first is Pradeepto, third is Dinesh Shah and the fourth is Nagarjuna G.
If anyone is clicking pics for a personal album, its ok but I strongly believe in seeking permission from the persons in the pics, if the pics are to be posted on a public bulletin board like the internet. Otherwise let there be a clear policy stating that those who attend the meets will be photographed and the pics will be posted on the net. Then let the members choose to attend or not.
Regards,
Rony.
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Sometime Today, RB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
pics are to be posted on a public bulletin board like the internet. Otherwise let there be a clear policy stating that those who attend the meets will be photographed and the pics will be posted on the net.
It's always been an unstated understanding that pics will be taken at the meet and posted on the ilug-bom server. If one does not want to be in those pics, one may refrain from posing, or better still, take the photo so that the guy who's taking the photo doesn't get left out.
Philip Tellis wrote:
It's always been an unstated understanding that pics will be taken at the meet and posted on the ilug-bom server. If one does not want to be in those pics, one may refrain from posing, or better still, take the photo so that the guy who's taking the photo doesn't get left out.
I don't mind clicking the photos. But those who click photos do it before any member gets a chance to excuse himself, while the meet or some discussion is going on. It should be a matter of choice especially when it involves posting the pics on the internet and this unsaid rule should be adhered to by all. It is better if all those who click photos do it with the consent of those being clicked.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 10:38 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
Vinayak Hegde wrote:
Nope. First row first is Pradeepto, third is Dinesh Shah and the fourth is Nagarjuna G.
If anyone is clicking pics for a personal album, its ok but I strongly believe in seeking permission from the persons in the pics, if the pics are to be posted on a public bulletin board like the internet.
Whoa!
Otherwise let there be a clear policy stating that those who attend the meets will be photographed and the pics will be posted on the net. Then let the members choose to attend or not.
Legally speaking, if pics are taken in a public setting the subject cannot reserve the right of how, when and where they'll be published. He/she has "no say" whatsoever.
Regards,
ah
Amol Hatwar wrote:
Legally speaking, if pics are taken in a public setting the subject cannot reserve the right of how, when and where they'll be published. He/she has "no say" whatsoever.
Then the best option would be to avoid linux meets.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 18:04 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
Amol Hatwar wrote:
Legally speaking, if pics are taken in a public setting the subject cannot reserve the right of how, when and where they'll be published. He/she has "no say" whatsoever.
Then the best option would be to avoid linux meets.
Rony, you would have to avoid all _public_ meetings/conferences/summits etc., not just Linux meets. In all such events that I have attended (I am sure others will agree) pictures are taken of those on the stage as well as in the audience - without exception. BTW, even for private parties people actually pay the "paparazzi" to get their pics in the papers (like Page 3 in the local rags) :()
Rony, you would have to avoid all _public_ meetings/conferences/summits etc., not just Linux meets. In all such events that I have attended (I am sure others will agree) pictures are taken of those on the stage as well as in the audience - without exception. BTW, even for private parties people actually pay the "paparazzi" to get their pics in the papers (like Page 3 in the local rags) :()
Well, I think we have to modify our list joining policies here :) More over this issue has dragged on too much, dont you think guys, lets put an end to this topic for good.
Thanks & Regards, Mitul Limbani, Founder & CEO, Enterux Solutions, The Enterprise Linux Company (TM), www.enterux.com
Sometime Today, ML cobbled together some glyphs to say:
More over this issue has dragged on too much, dont you think guys, lets put an end to this topic for good.
no, it's fine. there's no harm in discussing various freedoms like the freedom of the press and the right to privacy.
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 24 February 2006 17:15, Philip Tellis wrote:
no, it's fine. there's no harm in discussing various freedoms like the freedom of the press and the right to privacy.
since we wanted the discussion...
"Freedom of the press" is not a blanket fundamental right. Infact it is not even an explicit fundamental right. It is derived from the "right to freedom" fundamental right stated in article 19. However, by virtue of legal precedence the press does enjoy a great deal of freedom.
Right to privacy : not explcitly mentioned in the constitution. once again legal precedence dictates this very important piece that should have been legislated properly.
While its good to have an active judiciary, these rights should be engraved in the constitution and not based on judicial precedents. Their is a risk of overturning those as we see in the case of roe v/s wade which has the potential of being raked up after so many years.
Don't forget the constitution of India and several hundred other countries out there :)
It is actually a very non trivial discussion given the nature of communication these days and in the days to come.
-abhi
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On Saturday 25 February 2006 4:34 pm, Abhishek Daga wrote:
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 24 February 2006 17:15, Philip Tellis wrote:
no, it's fine. there's no harm in discussing various freedoms like the freedom of the press and the right to privacy.
since we wanted the discussion...
Right to privacy : not explcitly mentioned in the constitution. once again legal precedence dictates this very important piece that should have been legislated properly.
Publishing a few pics of someone in a public place is not a violation. But publishing a series of photos of someone in various public places in order to build up a fake story is definetly a violation. The nature of technology will not change this. If one gets Kareenaesque in public one should expect the publicity. Curtailing the press to prevent such things is definetly a violation of freedom of the press and public. Of course i can't understand what's so interesting about watching some 2pence celebrity screwing themselves.
--- JTD jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote: <snip>
Publishing a few pics of someone in a public place is not a violation. But publishing a series of photos of someone in various public places in order to build up a fake story is definetly a violation.
<snip> Assuming that the act was committed in a public place. Is a pub a public place? I am asking. I dont know whats the technicality here. Does "right to admission reserved" make it a private place where right to privacy takes precedence over right to freedom of expression?
Of course i can't understand what's so interesting about watching some 2pence celebrity screwing themselves.
Lets see now, Cheap Thrills, Voyeurism, Cheap Thrills.
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On Saturday 25 February 2006 6:46 pm, Abhishek Daga wrote:
--- JTD jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
<snip>
But publishing a series of photos of someone in various public places in order to build up a fake story is definetly a violation.
<snip> Assuming that the act was committed in a public place. Is a pub a public place? I am asking. I dont know whats the technicality here. Does "right to admission reserved" make it a private place where right to privacy takes precedence over right to freedom of expression?
It does become a private place. And such establishments will tell you "no photos". Which is kinda defeating cause every reporter worth his r will be diving in with cameras.
If some story that has public interest (basically acts that usurp the commons, acts leading to violation of the law / other's rights) was published with photos from even a private area I think it would be fully justified. We do have many such definitions where photography is restricted due to "security" and "public interest". Our railway stations and airports for example. Never mind that you could walk in from jari mari or fire a missile from the slums surrounding it. On a side note my cousin was shooting with a camcorder recently at Matheran. Some girls were walking around. One of them jumped up and started creating a ruckus. My cousin refused to erase his recording and told them to get out of public places if they dont want to be photographed. In any case he added he preferred the monkeys they look good in comparison.
JTD wrote:
On a side note my cousin was shooting with a camcorder recently at Matheran. Some girls were walking around. One of them jumped up and started creating a ruckus. My cousin refused to erase his recording and told them to get out of public places if they dont want to be photographed. In any case he added he preferred the monkeys they look good in comparison.
We are going off track. The discussion is about our meets and respecting an individual's choice to not have his picture posted on the internet.
Regards,
Rony.
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--- Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
.... and told them to get out of public places if they dont want to be photographed.
We are going off track. The discussion is about our meets and respecting an individual's choice to not have his picture posted on
the internet.
Regards, Rony.
Net laws havent come from outer space (no pun intended). They are a logical evolution of existing "Real world" laws.
The example is actually a pretty good one. Colleges, if aided by the state are then public places. Anything subsidized by the state is a public place therefore by visiting such a place you have waived off your right to privacy.
And if you sue anyone for taking such pics and posting on the net, then the judge/tribunal will wonder WTF were you doing saying cheese/mayo to the camera....
Also, if i am not mistaken, by law, all photographs are copyright of the photographer (unless explicitly waived) even if you pay them to take the pic.
Putting it all together, you never really had a right to start with. neither of privacy nor to the photo.
-abhi
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Dont read this. It's rather long and boring (no offense meant).
On Saturday 25 February 2006 17:06, Abhishek Daga wrote:
Net laws havent come from outer space (no pun intended). They are a logical evolution of existing "Real world" laws.
The example is actually a pretty good one. Colleges, if aided by the state are then public places. Anything subsidized by the state is a public place therefore by visiting such a place you have waived off your right to privacy.
And if you sue anyone for taking such pics and posting on the net, then the judge/tribunal will wonder WTF were you doing saying cheese/mayo to the camera....
Also, if i am not mistaken, by law, all photographs are copyright of the photographer (unless explicitly waived) even if you pay them to take the pic.
Putting it all together, you never really had a right to start with. neither of privacy nor to the photo.
-abhi
What he means is, if you dont want to be photographed then stay inside your house, close all doors, windows, blinds. And don't directly interact with the outside world. :)
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
Dont read this. It's rather long and boring (no offense meant).
What he means is, if you dont want to be photographed then stay inside your house, close all doors, windows, blinds. And don't directly interact with the outside world. :)
Yours is not just to do and die, but to also question how and why..
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Dinesh Joshi wrote:
What he means is, if you dont want to be photographed then stay inside your house, close all doors, windows, blinds. And don't directly interact with the outside world. :)
Is it so difficult for us to simply excuse an attendee member from being photographed? We are putting up big theories and laws on privacy as if we are legal experts even using curses like WTF... ( as Abhi put it) etc., when the issue is local about our meets and should be resolved with common sense and mutual understanding. Take whatever photos you want to take, all I am saying is ask first.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Sunday 26 February 2006 12:43 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
local about our meets and should be resolved with common sense and mutual understanding. Take whatever photos you want to take, all I am saying is ask first.
There is the complication of all photographers asking all participants for permission so as to eliminate the minority from the photo. We would have to start an hour earlier. Besides as i said earlier it does not prevent someone with intent doing what he pleases.
Sometime Today, RB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
mutual understanding. Take whatever photos you want to take, all I am saying is ask first.
do it the other way around. if you see someone taking photos, ask him not to take photos of you. It's not hard to spot a photographer.
Sometime Today, RB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
respecting an individual's choice to not have his picture posted on the internet.
You don't have that choice. Your choices are limited to attending the meet and posing for a group picture. Lug meetings are not private events, they are open to the public. Anything you say or do, your presence, and appearance are all public when you attend a lug meet.
On 2/25/06, Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
We are going off track. The discussion is about our meets and respecting an individual's choice to not have his picture posted on the internet.
This is a mail Robert sent to GNU classpath mailing list asking for permission to put pictures (of FOSSDEM 2006) online.
From: *Robert Schuster theBohemian@gmx.net* To: *GNU Classpath classpath@gnu.org* Date: *Feb 28, 2006 6:58 PM* Subject: *FOSDEM'06 Photos*
Hi friends, this was a great weekend which I really enjoyed! As you may have noticed I took a lot of photos ;) and I plan to make them available for you soon.
I thought it would be a good idea to upload them to a service like flickr.com and that is why I wrote this mail.
1) Is flickr.com acceptable for you? (If not, is there a free - in the sense of freedom - service that provides the same features?)
2) Are you OK with showing a picture of you online? If not please drop me a short notice off-list. I will wait until Sunday (2006-03-05) for possible complains. If no one resists I will put the pictures online otherwise I send them to all of you via email.
I am looking forward meeting you again at FOSDEM '07 and other events in between. :)
cya Robert
-- "Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn." -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr
If some story that has public interest (basically acts that usurp the
commons, acts leading to violation of the law / other's rights) was published with photos from even a private area I think it would be fully justified.
who defines public interest?? Reporters out to for a story to save their jobs?? I font know if u know this, but recently at a private celebration in chennai.. tamil newspapermen took photographs of a couple getting cosy.. and this was published as how our culture is getting westernised .. and all that culture assasination BS.. does this usurp the commons, in conservative chennai probably.. but is it justified.. I think not...
We do have many such definitions where photography
is restricted due to "security" and "public interest". Our railway stations and airports for example. Never mind that you could walk in from jari mari or fire a missile from the slums surrounding it. On a side note my cousin was shooting with a camcorder recently at Matheran. Some girls were walking around. One of them jumped up and started creating a ruckus. My cousin refused to erase his recording and told them to get out of public places if they dont want to be photographed.
wat about just basic courtsey of not photographin a person if he doesnt want to be on camera??
-- Puneet
Arun K. Khan wrote:
Rony, you would have to avoid all _public_ meetings/conferences/summits etc., not just Linux meets. In all such events that I have attended (I am sure others will agree) pictures are taken of those on the stage as well as in the audience - without exception.
Yes Arun, but the audience is not identified individually or named from left to right. We are an open list that can be accessed even by outsiders. So it is even more important that individual identities are guarded and we concentrate on making members more relaxed about getting together, instead of having the sword of public pictures hanging over their heads. It should be a matter of choice and this choice should be respected by all.
Regards,
Rony.
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Sometime Today, RB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
left to right. We are an open list that can be accessed even by outsiders. So it is even more important that individual identities are
Yeah, you already write with your real name, so what's the big deal. If you really want anonymity, then use a pseudonym, connect via an anonymising proxy, and don't attend meets.
I was actually anonymous in my first lug meet. People knew I was there because I'd signed the attendance, they just didn't know who I was. That was a fateful day in Jan 2000.
Philip
On Saturday 25 February 2006 16:34, Philip Tellis wrote:
I was actually anonymous in my first lug meet. People knew I was there because I'd signed the attendance, they just didn't know who I was. That was a fateful day in Jan 2000.
Haha. Same here for the last meet :)
On Wednesday 22 February 2006 05:08, Rony Bill wrote:
If anyone is clicking pics for a personal album, its ok but I strongly believe in seeking permission from the persons in the pics, if the pics are to be posted on a public bulletin board like the internet. Otherwise let there be a clear policy stating that those who attend the meets will be photographed and the pics will be posted on the net. Then let the members choose to attend or not.
May be everyone in appearing in the background on CNN or any other news channel should start suing them because they are beaming their pictures without their permission ;)
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
May be everyone in appearing in the background on CNN or any other news channel should start suing them because they are beaming their pictures without their permission ;)
The news channel does not reveal their identity. Thats the real issue, not just the pics.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Saturday 25 February 2006 9:19 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
May be everyone in appearing in the background on CNN or any other news channel should start suing them because they are beaming their pictures without their permission ;)
The news channel does not reveal their identity. Thats the real issue, not just the pics.
Pointless. Suppose i photograph Rony Bill and put his photo in Kal Nirnay (yeah that's bigger than all the newspapers put together) with his name. Who cares except Rony Bill and his friends. But if it were accompanied by some article then many others would get interested. Identity makes sense only in a particular context. Eg. voter id cards, pan cards, tpin numbers, driving licence etc. all of these are "public" documents which put a picture to a name, all of these are completely vulnerable to theft. The recent public issue fiasco comes to mind. The holy grail of control freaks (mostly brain dead governments and security agencies) is full of holes It is trivial to create a false identity, if u need to subvert the system. If that is the case then a "true" identity is just a mirage. If sufficient numbers went about creating false identities then privacy would be more or less protected.
On Saturday 25 February 2006 15:49, Rony Bill wrote:
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
May be everyone in appearing in the background on CNN or any other news channel should start suing them because they are beaming their pictures without their permission ;)
The news channel does not reveal their identity. Thats the real issue, not just the pics.
Neither is this mailing list revealing anybody's identity. Only photographs are put up. People are curious and ask "whos who?". Thats a different issue.
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 7:02 pm, Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:56, Anurag wrote:
*snip*
- Pictures:
Pictures taken in this meet have been posted on ILUG-BOM picture gallery ``http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/''.
So I am pretty sure that the gentleman in this picture in the first row, second from left is JTD. true? false? :)
false. I was in Goa ;-)
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday 23 February 2006 13:01, Amol Hatwar wrote:
This can turn into a contest: "Identify the Glugger" :)
Regards,
ah
hehe. whose the old guy in the first row?
Oh, what the heck.. To hell with tact...
JTD.. We know you are one of the old guys.. maybe not this one. but which one? :O)
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Abhishek Daga wrote:
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday 23 February 2006 13:01, Amol Hatwar wrote:
This can turn into a contest: "Identify the Glugger" :)
Regards,
ah
hehe. whose the old guy in the first row?
Oh, what the heck.. To hell with tact...
JTD.. We know you are one of the old guys.. maybe not this one. but which one? :O)
He is here, Just below the ceiling fan, http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=... http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=... Don't misunderstand again, he is having black hair ;-) Hope JTD will not have any objection!
/Benoy
On Friday 24 February 2006 9:59 am, benoy wrote:
Abhishek Daga wrote:
--- Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday 23 February 2006 13:01, Amol Hatwar wrote:
This can turn into a contest: "Identify the Glugger" :)
Regards,
ah
hehe. whose the old guy in the first row?
Oh, what the heck.. To hell with tact...
JTD.. We know you are one of the old guys.. maybe not this one. but which one? :O)
He is here, Just below the ceiling fan, http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_it emId=232 http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_it emId=262 Don't misunderstand again, he is having black hair ;-) Hope JTD will not have any objection!
Ya that is me. I identified myself in some of the 2002 HBCSE meets but the pics were too dark just like the abv links. I have some grey hair and accept natures idiocity without diving into the nearest hair dye vat ;-). Wonder what's happened to the telomere repair technology.
On Friday 24 February 2006 11:31 am, JTD wrote:
JTD.. We know you are one of the old guys.. maybe not this one. but which one? :O)
He is here, Just below the ceiling fan, http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_ it emId=232
Before curiosity kills a few cats here is better shot. http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/pics/ main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=256
I am wearing a t shirt and standing in front of Prof. Arya (gray hair).
hehe. whose the old guy in the first row?
Dinesh A. Joshi ----------------------------------
--I wonder, where is Dinesh Sitting?...
regards
dk
----- Original Message --- -- From: "Dinesh Joshi" dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com
On Friday 24 February 2006 05:10, Dinesh Kumar wrote:
--I wonder, where is Dinesh Sitting?...
Who? Dinesh Shah, me or you? :P
-- Dinesh A. Joshi
Dinesh Joshi, of course.
Regards
Dinesh
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dinesh Joshi" dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com Dinesh Joshi, of course.
Guess :)
Dinesh A. Joshi
Clues?...:)
-
Abhishek Daga -
Amol Hatwar -
Anurag -
Arun K. Khan -
benoy -
Dinesh Joshi -
Dinesh Kumar -
JTD -
Mitul Limbani -
Philip Tellis -
Puneet Lakhina -
Rony Bill -
Sanket Medhi -
Vinayak Hegde -
प्रव ीण् ए (Praveen A)