Hello All,
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
On 14-Jan-08, at 9:01 PM, Rony wrote:
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
I find the articles are quite good
On Jan 15, 2008 8:41 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
I find the articles are quite good
Of course, Mr.Gonsalves. Sometimes though, one may find opinions favouring BSD over GPL a bit disagreeable, but that's another battle for another day.
I have found that LFY are ready to replace defective media, but sometimes you have to send them your defective copy before they send a replacement, especially if you do not have a subscription number. For regular subscribers, however, they have been quite eager to help of late.
What we need to do is to send them defective media en masse, even by regular post, and not just sit about lamenting our misfortune. Then give them follow up calls. A big rush like this will force them to reconsider their quality control and vendor choice, along with packaging options.
I am a bit willing today to give LFY the benefit of doubt - they don't earn as much from advertising as the other 'computer' magazines. We, their reader base, are supposed to be penniless / penny pinching and few. Of course, they don't spend too much writing their articles either, but the point is moot.
On 15-Jan-08, at 10:58 AM, Nishit Dave wrote:
I find the articles are quite good
Of course, Mr.Gonsalves. Sometimes though, one may find opinions favouring BSD over GPL a bit disagreeable, but that's another battle for another day.
no need to get personal - if you have something to say on the subject, say it on the subject.
Nishit Dave wrote:
I have found that LFY are ready to replace defective media, but sometimes you have to send them your defective copy before they send a replacement, especially if you do not have a subscription number. For regular subscribers, however, they have been quite eager to help of late.
What we need to do is to send them defective media en masse, even by regular post, and not just sit about lamenting our misfortune. Then give them follow up calls. A big rush like this will force them to reconsider their quality control and vendor choice, along with packaging options.
We will have to send it to them every month. Who has time to do all this. They have problems in two areas. Quality of the media itself and its packaging inside the magazine that can be tampered with. A mass boycott will work better than mass mailing.
(apologies if you get two copies of this mail)
On Jan 15, 2008 8:47 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
What we need to do is to send them defective media en masse, even by regular post, and not just sit about lamenting our misfortune. Then give them follow up calls. A big rush like this will force them to reconsider their quality control and vendor choice, along with packaging options.
We will have to send it to them every month. Who has time to do all this. They have problems in two areas. Quality of the media itself and its packaging inside the magazine that can be tampered with. A mass boycott will work better than mass mailing.
Cc'ing them on this thread or mass-emailing them might do the trick ;-)
A lot of people might be using these magazine-CDs as their first initiation to Linux. Defective media might be doing more damage than just angering the odd LFY reader.
Just my 2 paisa.
~ViM
-- Vipul Mathur vipul at linux-delhi.org
On Monday 14 January 2008 21:01, Rony wrote:
Hello All,
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
Given the astronomical costs of producing and distributing print, it is wonder that mags survive at all. Not to mention everything being 1 month out of date.
The net is a better place for any info u might want.
EFY has been producing pathetic stuff right from it's first electronics mag - schematics full of mistakes, clippings from foreign mags with the essence clipped out, half baked articles etc. The only useful thing inside back then was local vendor ads. FF to present. Nothing changed. The first dvd was a washout in a few weeks (i was lucky mine worked for a few days). I did not find any interesting article. The next one i purchased a few months later was worse. While their staff finds plenty of time to plug their stuff on the lug mail-lists, they havent learned any lessons in 30 yrs.
Stop wasting your time and money on them.
As for the damage to FOSS new comers, hold more workshops i suppose.
On 16-Jan-08, at 11:08 AM, jtd wrote:
While their staff finds plenty of time to plug their stuff on the lug mail-lists, they havent learned any lessons in 30 yrs.
I just went through the latest issue - nearly all the articles are original content written by Indians - amazing. And quite a few by students - even more amazing. A mag that encourages this kind of thing is to be welcomed. Maybe it doesnt have the depth and quality of stuff one can get on the internet, but it is encouraging young Indians to write on foss - that alone is enough
Stop wasting your time and money on them.
As for the damage to FOSS new comers, hold more workshops i suppose.
In the absence of workshops by the highly qualified and discerning members of our esteemed LUGs, the poor n00bs will have to make do with LFY and similar offerings - sigh
On Wednesday 16 January 2008 12:02, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 16-Jan-08, at 11:08 AM, jtd wrote:
While their staff finds plenty of time to plug their stuff on the lug mail-lists, they havent learned any lessons in 30 yrs.
I just went through the latest issue - nearly all the articles are original content written by Indians - amazing. And quite a few by students - even more amazing. A mag that encourages this kind of thing is to be welcomed. Maybe it doesnt have the depth and quality of stuff one can get on the internet, but it is encouraging young Indians to write on foss - that alone is enough
Point taken about students. I also confess to not having read the mag in the last year. But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content. Could pandering to the space mktg department have something to do with it?
Stop wasting your time and money on them.
As for the damage to FOSS new comers, hold more workshops i suppose.
In the absence of workshops by the highly qualified and discerning members of our esteemed LUGs, the poor n00bs will have to make do with LFY and similar offerings - sigh
:-(
On 16-Jan-08, at 12:39 PM, jtd wrote:
students - even more amazing. A mag that encourages this kind of thing is to be welcomed. Maybe it doesnt have the depth and quality of stuff one can get on the internet, but it is encouraging young Indians to write on foss - that alone is enough
Point taken about students. I also confess to not having read the mag in the last year. But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content.
did you look at the latest issue? I suggest you do so before making further comments - vastly improved from what it was even 6 months back. They *do* have proper editorial staff and I see very few plugs from sponsors. They fill in stuff from Linux world, but that is because they dont get enough articles from locals (hint: how about one from you)
On Wednesday 16 January 2008 12:50, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 16-Jan-08, at 12:39 PM, jtd wrote:
But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content.
did you look at the latest issue? I suggest you do so before making further comments - vastly improved from what it was even 6 months back.
ok ok. Off to the newsstand
They fill in stuff from Linux world, but that is because they dont get enough articles from locals (hint: how about one from you)
You want them to shutdown or what? ;-E
On 16-Jan-08, at 2:11 PM, jtd wrote:
But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content.
did you look at the latest issue? I suggest you do so before making further comments - vastly improved from what it was even 6 months back.
ok ok. Off to the newsstand
They fill in stuff from Linux world, but that is because they dont get enough articles from locals (hint: how about one from you)
You want them to shutdown or what? ;-E
no - honestly. As already mentioned, I have only looked at the last 2 or 3 issues as I get them free now, so cannot comment on the past. At present they are looking for people to write. So instead of whining about the quality of articles, please write better ones - they *will* be accepted and they even pay for them. This mag is for n00bs - basically for people who may not even own computers and have limited or no access to the internet. It gives them a taste of the goodies out there. Further, most of us are still wed to dead trees - unless it is on paper, it is difficult for us to read and understand it. (Which is why dead-tree magazines are flourishing). Agreed, LFY is not of the standards expected by members of this list - but then it is not meant for members of this list. So if LUG members cannot go out and conduct workshops, the least they can do is to write good articles. (And it is not all that easy to write a good article)
On Jan 16, 2008 2:42 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 16-Jan-08, at 2:11 PM, jtd wrote:
But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content.
did you look at the latest issue? I suggest you do so before making further comments - vastly improved from what it was even 6 months back.
ok ok. Off to the newsstand
They fill in stuff from Linux world, but that is because they dont get enough articles from locals (hint: how about one from you)
You want them to shutdown or what? ;-E
no - honestly. As already mentioned, I have only looked at the last 2 or 3 issues as I get them free now, so cannot comment on the past.
there is always the traditional discomfort on finding something defective in what one buys!
Karunakar
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 16-Jan-08, at 12:39 PM, jtd wrote:
students - even more amazing. A mag that encourages this kind of thing is to be welcomed. Maybe it doesnt have the depth and quality of stuff one can get on the internet, but it is encouraging young Indians to write on foss - that alone is enough
Point taken about students. I also confess to not having read the mag in the last year. But browsing several issues at the news stand most certainly found the content to be poor. I dont see any reason why the mag cant have proper editorial staff capable of doing their job and providing at least some good content.
did you look at the latest issue? I suggest you do so before making further comments - vastly improved from what it was even 6 months back. They *do* have proper editorial staff and I see very few plugs from sponsors. They fill in stuff from Linux world, but that is because they dont get enough articles from locals (hint: how about one from you)
I buy the mags mainly to save on download costs of the media. This month's Live CD really comes alive and is kicking. It makes a rattling cum whining sound in my DVD writer as well as the other CD writer. Even the media is complaining. ;) I have given it back to my paperwala and will get a replacement within a few days. I hope it hasn't done any damage to my drives.
On 17-Jan-08, at 12:02 AM, Rony wrote:
I buy the mags mainly to save on download costs of the media.
a person at your level should *always* download with proper checks - you owe it to your customers not to cut costs at their expense
On Thursday 17 January 2008 06:58, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 17-Jan-08, at 12:02 AM, Rony wrote:
I buy the mags mainly to save on download costs of the media.
a person at your level should *always* download with proper checks
- you owe it to your customers not to cut costs at their expense
you can get the md5 sums from the original website(s) and do a check. Besides as a trial the cd/dvd in the mag is an attraction. To use in production he will anyway require the latest fixes.
On Jan 16, 2008 12:39 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
:-(
What LFY misses is just this: anything of worth for anybody who really needs to read it. You either have articles explaining the method of installing such-and-such package, or the coarser points of its GUI, or something related to programming and scripting that takes up so many pages and offers very little of interest to a plain user like me. Oh, and they *have* to show the console commands and output - probably it was there in the online magazines from where the article was lifted.
If I had written my class assignments like they do their articles, I would have flunked management. Or perhaps I did...?
On 16-Jan-08, at 12:51 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
very little of interest to a plain user like me. Oh, and they *have* to show the console commands and output - probably it was there in the online magazines from where the article was lifted.
If I had written my class assignments like they do their articles, I would have flunked management. Or perhaps I did...?
1. new horizons original, Indian contributor, not lifted 2. BJP and open source - not lifted orginal, Indian contributor (IC) 3. Freedom YUG - Original not lifted (ONL) IC 4. Mint ONL-IC 5. A day to celebrate fedora - ONL-IC 6. Article on hugin - ONL-IC 7.Audio recording - ONL - IC - Student 8. Processors - ONL - IC - Student 9. open pone IC - ONL 10. Androdi IC - ONL 11. Open Max - IC - ONL 12. Wanem - ONL - IC? 13. Rootkits - ONL - IC 14. & 15 tiny erp - ONL - IC 16 Tata Indicom - ONL - IC 17. oop - ONL - IC 18. VTK - ONL - IC 19. Rails testing - ONL - IC 20. Gnowsys - ONL - IC - student 21. Blender part III - ONL - IC 22. Codesport - ONL - IC 23. Programming - ONL - IC
are you sure you looked at the magazine before making your comments?
On Jan 16, 2008 1:16 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 16-Jan-08, at 12:51 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
are you sure you looked at the magazine before making your comments?
Oh, every issue in the last one year - does that count? Selective issues when they distributed Fedora or Mandriva etc. earlier - do they count? It is easy to cherry-pick, but the day they match even the (now dead) Tux Magazine would be for celebrations. On such fora.
Honestly, there are at least as many reasons to buy this magazine as there are not to, but it is worth a buy being the only Linux magazine in India, and many of the articles you quote are from very recent issues, which means either a) they are mending their ways, or b) there is a lot of enthusiast support. Their history doesn't speak much of it.
I am very much willing to give them the benefit of doubt, and if they are able to continue this improvement and increase the proportion of useful articles to curiosities, it would serve their subscriber base better.
Lastly, the article on Mint was one of the worst on any distro's test drive. Rather self-contradictory, especially when you read that it is an incomplete distro. What was it doing there anyway? Ubuntu enthusiasts would have preferred to receive the latest version on CD instead of this reskinned rehash. I, for one, would have loved to get my hands on Kubuntu.
Enough of this rant, though. It would be better for all concerned to write to the editor.
On 16-Jan-08, at 1:49 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
Honestly, there are at least as many reasons to buy this magazine as there are not to, but it is worth a buy being the only Linux magazine in India, and many of the articles you quote are from very recent issues, which means either a) they are mending their ways, or b) there is a lot of enthusiast support. Their history doesn't speak much of it.
as I already mentioned - I dont know about the past, I have only been looking at the last 3-4 issues.
I am very much willing to give them the benefit of doubt, and if they are able to continue this improvement and increase the proportion of useful articles to curiosities, it would serve their subscriber base better.
so please - an article from you in the feb issue would set the ball rolling
<disclaimer> I am not an employee of LFY and do not get any benefits out of championing their cause </disclaimer>
On Jan 16, 2008 2:44 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
so please - an article from you in the feb issue would set the ball rolling
Probably not as soon as that. Will need to see how *my* social experiments turn out.
On Wednesday 16 Jan 2008 1:49:12 pm Nishit Dave wrote: <skip>
Lastly, the article on Mint was one of the worst on any distro's test drive. Rather self-contradictory, especially when you read that it is an incomplete distro. What was it doing there anyway? Ubuntu enthusiasts would have preferred to receive the latest version on CD instead of this reskinned rehash. I, for one, would have loved to get my hands on Kubuntu.
<skip>
hmm hmm hmm.... I reviewed Mint in this issue. Can you elaborate on your claim that it is "self-contradictory". Criticisms are welcome, as that'll only help me improve. But when they are vague it's actually as good as Macrosoft's Get The Facts campaign or Steve Ballmer ranting how "Linux" is worthless. Kubuntu could be your favourite distro, and you can order it from their Ship It service-- if you would've ordered it in October, you have been running it by now. All major distros were released in Oct-Nov 07. So, by the time Jan issue hit the stands Ubuntu was an old news. Besides we asked in December issue if readers want Ubuntu 7.10 or wait for their LTS. People who wanted to skip it out numbered the ones who wanted Ubuntu. And frankly I (not the opinion of the mag) being a desktop user find distros like PCLinuxOS, Mandriva and Mint (which I tried for the first time), much more useful than Ubuntu and co. cuz at the end of the day it's all about out-of-the box experience.
Best, Atanu Datta Editorial Coordinator LINUX For You
On Jan 16, 2008 3:16 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
On Wednesday 16 Jan 2008 1:49:12 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
<skip>
hmm hmm hmm.... I reviewed Mint in this issue. Can you elaborate on your claim that it is "self-contradictory". Criticisms are welcome, as that'll only help me improve. But when they are vague it's actually as good as Macrosoft's Get The Facts campaign or Steve Ballmer ranting how "Linux" is worthless. Kubuntu could be your favourite distro, and you can order it from their Ship It service-- if you would've ordered it in October, you have been running it by now. All major distros were released in Oct-Nov 07. So, by the time Jan issue hit the stands Ubuntu was an old news. Besides we asked in December issue if readers want Ubuntu 7.10 or wait for their LTS. People who wanted to skip it out numbered the ones who wanted Ubuntu. And frankly I (not the opinion of the mag) being a desktop user find distros like PCLinuxOS, Mandriva and Mint (which I tried for the first time), much more useful than Ubuntu and co. cuz at the end of the day it's all about out-of-the box experience.
Well, it's nice to see response after so many people have vented their rants. I usually do not carry copies of LFY along, so can't immediately point out the contradictions etc., but man, we really don't need vague installation experiences as well. Why can't you tell us how different the installation was as compared to Ubuntu's, what steps you took for your dual install, what, apart from inclusion of closed codecs and drivers and new colours, would sent Mint apart from Ubuntu to make somebody want to switch, etc.?
What you wrote was (and pardon the lame analogies) like saying you took a such-and-such model of car, a notchback based on a hatchback for a spin, it sported new colours and had a hi-fi stereo as addition, and felt about the same. But uh-oh, it lacked some parts that were supposed to be there, e.g. the odometer was only for show. Of course, you can easily get the odometer cable installed from the original version.
I have been using Shipit since a long time. I have however never been able to find the link that leads you to get Kubuntu through it. AFAIK, K is a related project, an offshoot of Ubuntu. So kindly enlighten.
Your last point could be very controversial. We might as well go along with Linspire, going by that credo.
On 17-Jan-08, at 12:07 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
Well, it's nice to see response after so many people have vented their rants.
just for everyone's info, he responded at once, but being a new member under moderation his replies were delayed
On Jan 17, 2008 12:13 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 17-Jan-08, at 12:07 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
Well, it's nice to see response after so many people have vented their rants.
just for everyone's info, he responded at once, but being a new member under moderation his replies were delayed
FYI, I was talking with historical perspective, but enough about that.
Hi,
On Jan 17, 2008 12:07 PM, Nishit Dave stargazer.dave@gmail.com wrote:
I have been using Shipit since a long time. I have however never been able to find the link that leads you to get Kubuntu through it. AFAIK, K is a related project, an offshoot of Ubuntu. So kindly enlighten.
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ <--- this has been there since some time now. And please do define "offshoot" here. Afaik, I can see, kubuntu.org has Canonical written all over it. Scroll down the webpage and have a look
Your last point could be very controversial. We might as well go along with Linspire, going by that credo.
Not sure what that analogy means, really.
Cheers!
Pradeepto
Hi,
For what its worth adding to this discussion, we all have lot of different opinions about LFY and everything else. JFYI, LFY now has a new editorial team or so I am told. Atanu and Swapnil are few these new dudes who have been working hard to change the earlier image of the magazine. Disclaimer : I don't get free LFYs for this plug or any kind of benefits. Just that, I can see a lot of bad blood and opinion and which is resulting in not giving these new team a chance to show what they want to do. I have met Atanu at Freed and have had a few phone chats with Swapnil in recent times, they really seemed be honest about what they are trying to do. It would help if we try to give them some space and time and then comment on their work after fairly evalutating them.
Cheers!
Pradeepto
On Jan 17, 2008 12:41 PM, Pradeepto Bhattacharya pradeeptob@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
For what its worth adding to this discussion, we all havelot of different opinions about LFY and everything else. JFYI, LFY now has a new editorial team or so I am told. Atanu and Swapnil are few these new dudes who have been working hard to change the earlier image of the magazine. Disclaimer : I don't get free LFYs for this plug or any kind of benefits. Just that, I can see a lot of bad blood and opinion and which is resulting in not giving these new team a chance to show what they want to do. I have met Atanu at Freed and have had a few phone chats with Swapnil in recent times, they really seemed be honest about what they are trying to do. It would help if we try to give them some space and time and then comment on their work after fairly evalutating them.
That is a very reasonable opinion. And thanks for the Kubuntu link. I have already ordered two CDs, which I usually give away, but this time I'll keep one for installation myself.
On 17-Jan-08, at 12:52 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
try to give them some space and time and then comment on their work after fairly evalutating them.
That is a very reasonable opinion. And thanks for the Kubuntu link. I have already ordered two CDs, which I usually give away, but this time I'll keep one for installation myself.
so now all that remains is your article for LFY
Pradeepto Bhattacharya wrote:
Hi,
For what its worth adding to this discussion, we all havelot of different opinions about LFY and everything else. JFYI, LFY now has a new editorial team or so I am told. Atanu and Swapnil are few these new dudes who have been working hard to change the earlier image of the magazine. Disclaimer : I don't get free LFYs for this plug or any kind of benefits. Just that, I can see a lot of bad blood and opinion and which is resulting in not giving these new team a chance to show what they want to do. I have met Atanu at Freed and have had a few phone chats with Swapnil in recent times, they really seemed be honest about what they are trying to do. It would help if we try to give them some space and time and then comment on their work after fairly evalutating them.
Cheers!Pradeepto
True, but the original topic of the thread was only related to bad media quality not magazine content. This is a fact and has been recurring every month.
I have a suggestion for LFY. Since they have an office in Mumbai, they can play an important role in providing linux CDs and DVDs downloaded directly and recorded on original MoserBaer media with Red/Black print ( not the all silver ones ) and charge a reasonable amount for it. If they can get Cultural Book Depot or Premier in Lamington road to market these media, that would make it convenient for everyone. They are already selling magazines there.
On Thursday 17 January 2008 13:04, Rony wrote:
I have a suggestion for LFY. Since they have an office in Mumbai, they can play an important role in providing linux CDs and DVDs downloaded directly and recorded on original MoserBaer media with Red/Black print ( not the all silver ones ) and charge a reasonable amount for it. If they can get Cultural Book Depot or Premier in Lamington road to market these media, that would make it convenient for everyone. They are already selling magazines there.
Their business is printed publications, not distro distribution. But u could start such a service for Cultural / premier/ computer book shop etc etc.
On Jan 17, 2008 1:04 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
True, but the original topic of the thread was only related to bad media quality not magazine content. This is a fact and has been recurring every month.
I have a suggestion for LFY. Since they have an office in Mumbai, they can play an important role in providing linux CDs and DVDs downloaded directly and recorded on original MoserBaer media with Red/Black print ( not the all silver ones ) and charge a reasonable amount for it. If they can get Cultural Book Depot or Premier in Lamington road to market these media, that would make it convenient for everyone. They are already selling magazines there.
For some of us, Lamington Road is as far as Delhi. Moreover, LFY may not find that proposition economical. They publish their magazine not for furthering the cause of FOSS, but to earn profits. The GNU/Linux enthusiast community is minuscule in India. So their circulation numbers are probably much smaller than chic magazines like Digit. Further, they also don't get the same high-paying advertisers, or in similar numbers. The CDs are meant for additional inducement, but due to the oft-lamented, though historic, lack of quality in print articles have become its raison d'être. If they had not started providing distros on the second cd/dvd, the quality of content on their software package disc would have definitely seen them become history themselves.
It is heartening to note that they have started to learn, aided by die-hard supporters and goaded by rantings from the likes of us.
I would suggest LFY cut down on the *remaining* page-filler type articles and use the money thus saved for better quality control, better media, and better packaging.
Hi Nishit!
The following are my personal opinion and not my employers. So, excuse me if you find me rude.
On Thursday 17 Jan 2008 12:07:38 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 16, 2008 3:16 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
On Wednesday 16 Jan 2008 1:49:12 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
<skip>
hmm hmm hmm.... I reviewed Mint in this issue. Can you elaborate on your claim that it is "self-contradictory". Criticisms are welcome, as that'll only help me improve. But when they are vague it's actually as good as Macrosoft's Get The Facts campaign or Steve Ballmer ranting how "Linux" is worthless. Kubuntu could be your favourite distro, and you can order it from their Ship It service-- if you would've ordered it in October, you have been running it by now. All major distros were released in Oct-Nov 07. So, by the time Jan issue hit the stands Ubuntu was an old news. Besides we asked in December issue if readers want Ubuntu 7.10 or wait for their LTS. People who wanted to skip it out numbered the ones who wanted Ubuntu. And frankly I (not the opinion of the mag) being a desktop user find distros like PCLinuxOS, Mandriva and Mint (which I tried for the first time), much more useful than Ubuntu and co. cuz at the end of the day it's all about out-of-the box experience.
Well, it's nice to see response after so many people have vented their rants. I usually do not carry copies of LFY along, so can't immediately point out the contradictions etc., but man, we really don't need vague installation experiences as well. Why can't you tell us how different the installation was as compared to Ubuntu's,
My distro reviews are always my personal experiences. I like writing it as I'd write in my own blog. The reason I've used so much of Ubuntu's reference in the article is because I wanted to point out it's a remastered Ubuntu. So, I tried to concentrate more on Mint-specific enhancements.
what steps you took for your dual install,
You kidding me? Dual boot is set up automatically eversince 2002, when I remember installing Mandrake 8.2. You still wanna learn what steps ppl take for dual boot?
what, apart from inclusion of closed codecs and drivers and new colours, would sent Mint apart from Ubuntu to make somebody want to switch, etc.?
I think I've clearly pointed out all the Mint-specific enhancements. If you find something that's missing, do let me know. And personally I dont think Ubuntu has anything that's better than Debian Unstable that would make me wanna switch to Ubuntu. People always want an out of the box solution, otherwise GNOME wouldn't have come out with the codec buddy. And Ubuntu users wouldn't have come out with Automatix. I dont even use Automatix. I use the Free mp3 decoders, and not Fluendo's. So, chill!! The only non-free software I depend on is Adobe Flash. And I don't care about patents. So, I wont stop using Free decoders unless India follows the US model of software patents and stuff.
What you wrote was (and pardon the lame analogies) like saying you took a such-and-such model of car, a notchback based on a hatchback for a spin, it sported new colours and had a hi-fi stereo as addition, and felt about the same. But uh-oh, it lacked some parts that were supposed to be there, e.g. the odometer was only for show. Of course, you can easily get the odometer cable installed from the original version.
lol!! You are funny!
I have been using Shipit since a long time. I have however never been able to find the link that leads you to get Kubuntu through it. AFAIK, K is a related project, an offshoot of Ubuntu. So kindly enlighten.
Even I've had used Shippit (ordered 4.10, and then 6.06, and then stopped using Ubuntu altogether). Ordering Kubuntu is not such a big deal.
Your last point could be very controversial. We might as well go along with Linspire, going by that credo.
I wont go with Linspire cuz I find it even more useless than Winduhs. I'm too used to non-Winduhs stuff that I would care for a distro that tries to imitate the Winduhs environment. But whatever floats you boat. Mint has it's very interesting enhancements, that's the point of the whole article. Otherwise, right now I'm still on Mdv 2008 on my work laptop -- it's always been my default OS, followed by Debian. A review is a review. It's always a personal opinion. Otherwise it would have been a documentation -- release notes were already available. :-)
Best, Atanu
I have been using Shipit since a long time. I have however never been able to find the link that leads you to get Kubuntu through it. AFAIK, K is a related project, an offshoot of Ubuntu. So kindly enlighten.
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ Google is still alive brother...! Moreover Ubuntu website ain't a bad place to start with. Hope you've been there at least once! // enlightenment ends // for more enlightenment try gOS
On Jan 17, 2008 10:25 PM, Kamaleshwar Morjal kamaleshwar.morjal@gmail.com wrote:
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ Google is still alive brother...! Moreover Ubuntu website ain't a bad place to start with. Hope you've been there at least once! // enlightenment ends // for more enlightenment try gOS
No, I just wish for a CD and it happens automagically. What is this Google thing you quote?
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 11:35:21 am Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 17, 2008 10:25 PM, Kamaleshwar Morjal kamaleshwar.morjal@gmail.com
wrote:
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ Google is still alive brother...! Moreover Ubuntu website ain't a bad place to start with. Hope you've been there at least once! // enlightenment ends // for more enlightenment try gOS
No, I just wish for a CD and it happens automagically. What is this Google thing you quote?
He meant if you simply search for it in Google then you'll get the link instantly. e.g. typing "Kubuntu shipit" brings up http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Kubuntu+shipit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&am...
where https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ is the first link. :-)
On Jan 18, 2008 12:00 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 11:35:21 am Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 17, 2008 10:25 PM, Kamaleshwar Morjal <
kamaleshwar.morjal@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ Google is still alive brother...! Moreover Ubuntu website ain't a bad place to start with. Hope you've been there at least once! // enlightenment ends // for more enlightenment try gOS
No, I just wish for a CD and it happens automagically. What is this
thing you quote?
He meant if you simply search for it in Google then you'll get the link instantly. e.g. typing "Kubuntu shipit" brings up
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Kubuntu+shipit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&am...
where https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ is the first link. :-)
Wow, is that so easy? I wish somebody had told me yesterday. I had to type shipit.kubuntu.com all by myself in the browser window.
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 4:53:43 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 18, 2008 12:00 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 11:35:21 am Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 17, 2008 10:25 PM, Kamaleshwar Morjal <
kamaleshwar.morjal@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ Google is still alive brother...! Moreover Ubuntu website ain't a bad place to start with. Hope you've been there at least once! // enlightenment ends // for more enlightenment try gOS
No, I just wish for a CD and it happens automagically. What is this
thing you quote?
He meant if you simply search for it in Google then you'll get the link instantly. e.g. typing "Kubuntu shipit" brings up
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Kubuntu+shipit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&am... s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
where https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ is the first link. :-)
Wow, is that so easy? I wish somebody had told me yesterday. I had to type shipit.kubuntu.com all by myself in the browser window.
Well, if only you'd asked us in October, you'd have saved a lot of key strokes.
On Jan 18, 2008 5:02 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
Well, if only you'd asked us in October, you'd have saved a lot of key strokes.
For that, 1. Rony should have received bad media in October 2. Kenneth should have written about licensing in October 3. LFY should have included the Mint CD in October, along with your installation report 4. I should have been bothered to remark that I want to try Kubuntu because I hate Gnome, in October
Since none of this happened, and in the mean time, as I was awaiting the Ubuntu CDs from Shipit, I did not think about checking if Kubuntu also offered Shipit. I didn't notice it the last time I checked, so I assumed that it was download-only.
In other news, uninformed sources have been quoted as saying that an ophthalmologist in Russia has discovered a radical new technique to remove sarcasm blinkers painlessly. More details will be delivered in your inbox soon.
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 5:19:24 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 18, 2008 5:02 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
Well, if only you'd asked us in October, you'd have saved a lot of key strokes.
For that,
- Rony should have received bad media in October
- Kenneth should have written about licensing in October
- LFY should have included the Mint CD in October, along with your
installation report 4. I should have been bothered to remark that I want to try Kubuntu because I hate Gnome, in October
Okay!
Since none of this happened, and in the mean time, as I was awaiting the Ubuntu CDs from Shipit, I did not think about checking if Kubuntu also offered Shipit. I didn't notice it the last time I checked, so I assumed that it was download-only.
Nice!
In other news, uninformed sources have been quoted as saying that an ophthalmologist in Russia has discovered a radical new technique to remove sarcasm blinkers painlessly.
My pea brain can't really understand such deep words as 'an', 'ophthalmologist', 'in'. And stuff. Time to shoot a mail to Ben Hay for the answers.
More details will be delivered in your inbox soon.
Will definitely look forward to 'em!
On Jan 18, 2008 5:40 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
On Friday 18 Jan 2008 5:19:24 pm Nishit Dave wrote:
On Jan 18, 2008 5:02 PM, Atanu Datta lfyedit2@efyindia.com wrote:
Well, if only you'd asked us in October, you'd have saved a lot of key strokes.
For that,
- Rony should have received bad media in October
- Kenneth should have written about licensing in October
- LFY should have included the Mint CD in October, along with your
installation report 4. I should have been bothered to remark that I want to try Kubuntu because I hate Gnome, in October
Okay!
Since none of this happened, and in the mean time, as I was awaiting the Ubuntu CDs from Shipit, I did not think about checking if Kubuntu also offered Shipit. I didn't notice it the last time I checked, so I assumed that it was download-only.
Nice!
In other news, uninformed sources have been quoted as saying that an ophthalmologist in Russia has discovered a radical new technique to remove sarcasm blinkers painlessly.
My pea brain can't really understand such deep words as 'an', 'ophthalmologist', 'in'. And stuff. Time to shoot a mail to Ben Hay for the answers.
More details will be delivered in your inbox soon.
Will definitely look forward to 'em!
I find the magazine articles to be of good quality. Personal opinions aside, many of my friends also find reading LFY entertaining. There is a problem with LFY, however. I can always find every other magazine on the stands. I'd request the LFY folks to improve distribution here in areas near Mulund, Mumbai. Another problem is that the stand vendors don't really know what I'm asking for when I ask them about LFY. Apparently, they haven't heard of the magazine or have trouble recalling it.
Kudos to the LFY team for producing a good magazine. I'd like to write for it myself. :-)
Regards, Yesudeep.
I find the magazine articles to be of good quality. Personal opinions aside, many of my friends also find reading LFY entertaining. There is a problem with LFY, however. I can always find every other magazine on the stands. I'd request the LFY folks to improve distribution here in areas near Mulund, Mumbai.
We are regular subscriber for EFY since last 10 years, and LFY since its first issue. We will not say it is best magazine, but it is best among the magazine available on India market. And we have absolutely no hesitation to continue for next 1000 years ;-)
Warm Regards,
Mukund Deshmukh, Beta Computronics Pvt Ltd. 10/1 IT Park, Parsodi, Nagpur -440022 India. Web site - http://betacomp.com
MEET US AT,
Chinaplas 2008, Shanghai, China.
Mukund Deshmukh wrote:
I find the magazine articles to be of good quality. Personal opinions aside, many of my friends also find reading LFY entertaining. There is a problem with LFY, however. I can always find every other magazine on the stands. I'd request the LFY folks to improve distribution here in areas near Mulund, Mumbai.
We are regular subscriber for EFY since last 10 years, and LFY since its first issue.
I read my first issue of EFY about 22-23 years ago and then had a big pile of them till I got an ultimatum from my folks to clear my place. In spite of their long experience in publishing, it is surprising that they are not quality conscious about their media. How many defective medias do they need to bring out every month to finally change their supplier? And their representative is busy getting into unnecessary arguments with members on this list.
We will not say it is best magazine, but it is best among the magazine available on India market. And we have absolutely no hesitation to continue for next 1000 years ;-)
Hello all,
On Jan 16, 2008 1:49 PM, Nishit Dave stargazer.dave@gmail.com wrote:
Lastly, the article on Mint was one of the worst on any distro's test drive. Rather self-contradictory, especially when you read that it is an incomplete distro. What was it doing there anyway? Ubuntu enthusiasts would have preferred to receive the latest version on CD instead of this reskinned rehash. I, for one, would have loved to get my hands on Kubuntu.
True that the article was bad and the ubuntu users would have preferred what you said. But imagine someone who is just shifting from doze. He will definitely like that reskinning and UI modification. I think that starting with Mint will make the transition easier.
On Wednesday 16 Jan 2008 12:51:07 pm Nishit Dave wrote: Oh, and they
*have* to show the console commands and output - probably it was there in the online magazines from where the article was lifted.
We have an agreement with Linux Journal wherein we _buy_ content from them. Unless you aren't an LJ subscriber yourself you don't get to read it till 2 months from the date of it's publication online. Of course you wanna buy the imported mag for 800 or so bucks, it's up to you.
If I had written my class assignments like they do their articles, I would have flunked management. Or perhaps I did...?
interesting...
Best, Atanu Datta
jtd wrote:
On Monday 14 January 2008 21:01, Rony wrote:
Hello All,
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
Given the astronomical costs of producing and distributing print, it is wonder that mags survive at all. Not to mention everything being 1 month out of date.
The net is a better place for any info u might want.
EFY has been producing pathetic stuff right from it's first electronics mag - schematics full of mistakes, clippings from foreign mags with the essence clipped out, half baked articles etc. The only useful thing inside back then was local vendor ads.
Hmm those were the days. At least EFY was costing lower than Elektor and was affordable to the masses. I did assemble a lot of circuits from it, even made some PCBs at home using Ferric Oxide(?) and oil paint.
LFY however costs the same as other popular mags and yet poor in media quality. They should learn something from the quality of Digit's media.
FF to present. Nothing changed. The first dvd was a washout in a few weeks (i was lucky mine worked for a few days). I did not find any interesting article. The next one i purchased a few months later was worse. While their staff finds plenty of time to plug their stuff on the lug mail-lists, they havent learned any lessons in 30 yrs.
Stop wasting your time and money on them.
Thats exactly what I will do.
As for the damage to FOSS new comers, hold more workshops i suppose.
On Monday 14 Jan 2008 9:01:13 pm Rony wrote:
Hello All,
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
You don't have to send in the media to EFY HO in Delhi to get a replacement disc. On the CD itself it's printed (if you notice): "In case this cd does not work properly, write to us at support@efyindia.com for a free replacement."
Don't forget to send in your mailing address as well. Also if you can mention what exactly the error was that helps. But you certainly don't have to mail it to us.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
Best, Atanu Datta Team LFY
On Wednesday 16 January 2008 15:16, Atanu Datta wrote:
You don't have to send in the media to EFY HO in Delhi to get a replacement disc. On the CD itself it's printed (if you notice): "In case this cd does not work properly, write to us at support@efyindia.com for a free replacement."
Don't forget to send in your mailing address as well. Also if you can mention what exactly the error was that helps. But you certainly don't have to mail it to us.
I suppose that checking out the previous batch for defects typical and UNIQUE to efy would be too much of a pain. Letting the customer holler is an altogether more entertaining option. Defects like the media splitting (not cracking) around the locating hole, concentric rings appearing magically (most likely a side effect of splitting and moisture creep).
On Jan 17, 2008 11:36 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Wednesday 16 January 2008 15:16, Atanu Datta wrote:
You don't have to send in the media to EFY HO in Delhi to get a replacement disc. On the CD itself it's printed (if you notice): "In case this cd does not work properly, write to us at support@efyindia.com for a free replacement."
Don't forget to send in your mailing address as well. Also if you can mention what exactly the error was that helps. But you certainly don't have to mail it to us.
I suppose that checking out the previous batch for defects typical and UNIQUE to efy would be too much of a pain. Letting the customer holler is an altogether more entertaining option. Defects like the media splitting (not cracking) around the locating hole, concentric rings appearing magically (most likely a side effect of splitting and moisture creep).
You said it.
Atanu Datta wrote:
On Monday 14 Jan 2008 9:01:13 pm Rony wrote:
Hello All,
This month Linux For You has done it again. The magazine costs Rs. 100/- like other computer mags but again their optical media is bad. This has become a tradition with them and they seem to be pretty thick skinned about it. I have decided to stop buying this magazine altogether as it is a waste of hard earned money.
You don't have to send in the media to EFY HO in Delhi to get a replacement disc. On the CD itself it's printed (if you notice): "In case this cd does not work properly, write to us at support@efyindia.com for a free replacement."
Don't forget to send in your mailing address as well. Also if you can mention what exactly the error was that helps. But you certainly don't have to mail it to us.
Best, Atanu Datta Team LFY
"Sorry for the inconvience caused.
Kindly get in touch with us at the following address: EFY Enterprises Pvt Ltd 207 Shivsmriti 49 Dr A.B.Road Opp Central Bank Worli Naka, Mumbai 400018 Ph: 24950047
Regards, X X ( Name is kept hidden to protect sender's privacy: Rony)
Dear LFY,
I bought this month's Linux For You with 3 Debian DVDs from a news stand. However, the DVDs don't load properly and their surface too looks smoky so I need to exchange them.
I am located in Mumbai so please point me to your Mumbai office for the replacement.
-- Regards,
Rony. "
Dear Atanu,
Read the above mail and its reply above. There was no mention of getting a free replacement without sending the media. Now after all the bad publicity you mention it. I was really looking forward to use those Debian DVDs and ultimately I had to download 2 isos plus a lot of additional packages thus running into triband bills of a few thousand. Again this month is no better. Now I have to worry if my drives have been damaged due to the rattling of your media inside.
On Thursday 17 January 2008 12:49, Rony wrote:
Read the above mail and its reply above. There was no mention of getting a free replacement without sending the media. Now after all the bad publicity you mention it. I was really looking forward to use those Debian DVDs and ultimately I had to download 2 isos
I have three etch dvd iso and can burn you copies anytime u like.
jtd wrote:
On Thursday 17 January 2008 12:49, Rony wrote:
Read the above mail and its reply above. There was no mention of getting a free replacement without sending the media. Now after all the bad publicity you mention it. I was really looking forward to use those Debian DVDs and ultimately I had to download 2 isos
I have three etch dvd iso and can burn you copies anytime u like.
Thanks. I will let you know.
On Thursday 17 Jan 2008 12:49:03 pm Rony wrote:
Dear Atanu,
Read the above mail and its reply above. There was no mention of getting a free replacement without sending the media. Now after all the bad publicity you mention it. I was really looking forward to use those Debian DVDs and ultimately I had to download 2 isos plus a lot of additional packages thus running into triband bills of a few thousand. Again this month is no better. Now I have to worry if my drives have been damaged due to the rattling of your media inside.
-- Regards,
Rony.
Replacement discs are sent from Delhi office. Please shoot a mail to support_AT_efyindia_DOT_com, with you mailing address... Please mark me a cc at atanu_DOT_datta_AT_efyindia_DOT_com, so that I can follow up.
Regret the inconvenience.
Best regards, Atanu
-
Atanu Datta -
Balachandran Sivakumar -
G Karunakar -
jtd -
Kamaleshwar Morjal -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Mukund Deshmukh -
Nishit Dave -
Pradeepto Bhattacharya -
Rony -
Vipul Mathur -
Yesudeep