Hi, all i have some querries please see down
Queries : We are Planning to migrate from Windows to Linux Platform.Currently we are having two departments with below hardware and software configurations. We seek your guidance for this migration process. We will be very grateful if you can help us out in this pr We seek your guidance on following queries :- 1. Can you please suggest us which flavour of linux is suitable for each department depending upon software used by them? We have tried Suse 9.0 and RedHat 9.0 & Federo Core 3. 2. Can you please suggest us qually efficient linux based compatible softwares for below given softwares ? 3. Also we are looking for Diskless Networking (dumb client and HDD shared on server) for above 2 departments. Can you please suggest us which networking configuraton (hardware and software) is best suited. Kindly note that Department 2 is using Desktop P 4. As we are very much new to Linux environment, the linux flavour which we will choose should also have good online support available where we can ask our questions and get the results quickly. 5. Also our users are very much familiar to windows environment, so the softwares on linux which we will choose should be user friendly and GUI based. 6. Also those softwares should be tried, tested and stable so as we would not face any problem in future. Department -1 Current Configuration Hardware Software 15 Machines MS Excel C.P.U. - 200 to 300 Mhz Tally RAM 32 to 64 MB MS Access HDD 10 to 40 GB Developed Programs in Visual Basic Stand Alone Systems and No Server Department 2 Current Configuration Hardware Software 10 Machines Pagemaker 5.0 and 6.5 C.P.U. - 200 Mhz. To 1.7Ghz Devnagri Fonts Software RAM 32 to 256 MB Photoshop HDD 10 to 40 GB Stand Alone Systems and No Server
Please reply neel
neel s Gurjar wrote:
Hi, all i have some querries please see down
Queries : We are Planning to migrate from Windows to Linux Platform.Currently we are having two departments with below hardware and software configurations. We seek your guidance for this migration process. We will be very grateful if you can help us out in this pr We seek your guidance on following queries :-
- Can you please suggest us which flavour of linux is suitable for each department depending upon software used by them? We have tried Suse 9.0 and RedHat 9.0 & Federo Core 3.
Personally, I prefer Suse to Redhat any day. Suse 9.2 Professional is the best option you have. You can also get an official copy at very little cost from Novell. I believe they have support too. FC3 is what some of my friends swear by, but I have not really seen it. Both SUSE 9.2 and FC3 support devnagiri fonts. RedHat, unfortunately, support even for paid versions is close to pathetic (based on comments from our clients).
- Can you please suggest us qually efficient linux based compatible softwares for below given softwares ?
- Also we are looking for Diskless Networking (dumb client and HDD shared on server) for above 2 departments. Can you please suggest us which networking configuraton (hardware and software) is best suited. Kindly note that Department 2 is using Desktop P
We have set up a proof of concept setup using LTSP at our clients office at nariman point. 1 PIII 700 based server (actually one of our old pcs converted to server in Linux), 5 pcs, all Pentium 1 75mhz to 200mhz range, 16MB ram each connected on the network. Each PC runs off the server, using OpenOffice, Firefox. When work starts, we plan to use Thunderbird as email client. We have run all pcs at same time, graphics is bad due to old hardware, but good enough for normal office working. We have loaded ck-erp (payroll, accounting, HR, Inventory, etc) , sugar crm and obm (calandering / scheduling) softwares which are being tested to decide which of them will be used in future for all the work
- As we are very much new to Linux environment, the linux flavour which we will choose should also have good online support available where we can ask our questions and get the results quickly.
- Also our users are very much familiar to windows environment, so the softwares on linux which we will choose should be user friendly and GUI based.
- Also those softwares should be tried, tested and stable so as we would not face any problem in future.
Department -1 Current Configuration Hardware Software 15 Machines MS Excel C.P.U. - 200 to 300 Mhz Tally RAM – 32 to 64 MB MS Access HDD – 10 to 40 GB Developed Programs in Visual Basic Stand Alone Systems and No Server
I assume all pcs are Pentium Is. Then you need a powerful PC to use as server. You can do away with all the HDDs, move one or two of the large HDDs to the server (depending on total data requirement). Excel - replace with Open Office 1.9, there is hardly any difference
MS Access - No direct replacement. But most of the work you do on tally can be moved to Excel or a combination of MySQL and some management tools. In any case, MSAccess is no longer a viable platform even in windows. I will need more details on what you do on MSAccess to go on with this, but it is likely that what you use it for can be done by server based software like ck-erp, obm, etc.
Tally is a major problem. There is no cure for that except to move to a Linux bases accounting software. In any case, tally is highly dangerous to use in a corporate environment as it allows all kinds of manipulation. During audit, we always qualify reports where Tally is being used. We have moved many of our clients out of Tally.
All programs developed on Visual Basic will have to be rewritten on Linux. This is a reason why many companies have not moved out of propriotary softwares. If the programs are in Visual Basic .Net then you have some hopes by moving to Mono, but VB6 is just stuck there.
I would suggest that you identify which people need to use VB software and dont migrate them in the first stage. In second stage, perhaps you can have a Win3K server with remote desktop client running on Linux to give access to the VB Software. We worked that succssfully in an office with 75+ users.
Department – 2 Current Configuration Hardware Software 10 Machines Pagemaker 5.0 and 6.5 C.P.U. - 200 Mhz. To 1.7Ghz Devnagri Fonts Software RAM – 32 to 256 MB Photoshop HDD – 10 to 40 GB Stand Alone Systems and No Server
Pagemaker and photoshop can be replaced by good Linux software. I forgot what it is called, but it is already present in all distros. My friends in graphic design tell me that it is better than photoshop
Please reply neel
Pagemaker and photoshop can be replaced by good Linux software. I forgot what it is called, but it is already present in all distros. My friends in graphic design tell me that it is better than photoshop
It is called GIMP,Scribus and InkScape.No GIMP is not better than Photoshop.
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/02/24/1818224.shtml?tid=131
Komal
On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 07:15:10AM -0000, neel s Gurjar wrote:
- Can you please suggest us which flavour of linux is suitable for each department depending upon software used by them? We have tried Suse 9.0 and RedHat 9.0 & Federo Core 3.
How about Debian stable with security updates?
- Can you please suggest us qually efficient linux based compatible softwares for below given softwares ?
For some, there are no exact requirements. You know when most users ask for "something like software X" they actually mean "exactly ike software X, I don't want to change anything". So, when Openoffice doesn't look and feel like MSOffice, users complain. Of course, Openoffice could be exactly like MSOffice, but then it'd get slammed by look-and-feel lawsuits. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
- Also we are looking for Diskless Networking (dumb client and HDD shared on server) for above 2 departments. Can you please suggest us which networking configuraton (hardware and software) is best suited. Kindly note that Department 2 is using Desktop P
I'm thinking tftp, but I don't know much about it.
- As we are very much new to Linux environment, the linux flavour which we will choose should also have good online support available where we can ask our questions and get the results quickly.
Hmm, you may want Redhat if you want paid support. Then again, Debian has plenty of online help, and users who use it.
- Also those softwares should be tried, tested and stable so as we would not face any problem in future.
As long as you have regular updates, it'll be fine. Without regular updates, you're asking for the impossible.
Hardware Software 15 Machines MS Excel C.P.U. - 200 to 300 Mhz Tally RAM ? 32 to 64 MB MS Access HDD ? 10 to 40 GB Developed Programs in Visual Basic Stand Alone Systems and No Server
Screw the hardware. Excel => Openoffice (see above), Tally => avsap?, Access => MySQL with phpmyadmin, Developed programs in VB => ? eh? your VB programs *might* work with Wine.
10 Machines Pagemaker 5.0 and 6.5 C.P.U. - 200 Mhz. To 1.7Ghz Devnagri Fonts Software RAM ? 32 to 256 MB Photoshop HDD ? 10 to 40 GB
I don't know what Pagemaker does. Instead of listing software, why not present your real requirements? As we say, "what is the problem you're trying to solve?"
Devanagri fonts are available on Linux.
You can use Gimp instead of Photoshop.
Please reply
I don't want to.
On Sunday 27 Feb 2005 12:45 pm, neel s Gurjar wrote:
should be user friendly and GUI based. 6. Also those softwares should be tried, tested and stable so as we would not face any problem in future.
for ppl used to windoze, the best alternative is mandrake10.1. Mandrake also has the best support for indic computing of all linux distros. For dtp - the gimp + inkscape + scribus is recommended. In place of excel - open office calc. access can be replaced by postgresql with pgadmin or phppgadmin as a front end. Also can be accessed with open office calc through odbc. Tally could be upgraded to a customised version of avsap. Thin clients are available in droves in linux - so not a problem
"neel s Gurjar" ssnilu2001@rediffmail.com writes:
- Can you please suggest us which flavour of linux is suitable
for each department depending upon software used by them? We have tried Suse 9.0 and RedHat 9.0 & Federo Core 3.
Debian. It is stable, and its easier to manage in a networked installation.
- Also we are looking for Diskless Networking (dumb client and
HDD shared on server) for above 2 departments. Can you please suggest us which networking configuraton (hardware and software) is best suited. Kindly note that Department 2 is using Desktop P
If you want a completely dumb-terminal like setup, use LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project). If you just want a file server., use AFS+Kerberos. It'll be a good replacement for a Netware like environment. NFS should be easier to setup, but there are security issues.
- As we are very much new to Linux environment, the linux
flavour which we will choose should also have good online support available where we can ask our questions and get the results quickly.
Though this approach is good, I'd suggest you hire somebody to help you in the long run.
- Also our users are very much familiar to windows environment,
so the softwares on linux which we will choose should be user friendly and GUI based.
The GUI is different from Windows. Though some distributions give a exacty Windowz like look-and-feel, they have their own problems. The new GNOME/KDE desktops have a good gui. It'll be a very small learning curve to get used to this GUI., but that curve wont be tedious. Just needs a 2 hour session.
- Also those softwares should be tried, tested and stable so as
we would not face any problem in future.
Debian is known for stability.
Software
MS Excel --> OpenOffice has a equivalent tool. Or you can use Gnumeric
Tally --> One member on this list has developed a tool called avsap., you can try that. Or I think you can customize GNUCash for the purpose. But I'm not sure how different each of them are from `tally`.
MS Access --> I heard the yet to be released Open Office has a similar tool. But on GNU/Linux MySQL is the preferred database. However, it depends on what you use Access for.
Developed Programs in Visual Basic --> You'll have to run these on Wine. But I'm not sure whether Wine will be able to. And, recently there is talk about some legal issues regarding running W32 apps on Wine.
Pagemaker 5.0 and 6.5 --> If you've been using this for publishing kinda work., you'll have to use LaTeX. However, LaTeX has a steep learning curve. There are some GUI based tools to act as front ends for LaTeX. But if you are using Pagemaker just for getting out PDF/PS documents, you can use OpenOffice's Wordprocessor. It has PDF output feature. LaTeX is a professional approach, but OpenOffice can get things done.
Devnagri Fonts Software --> You get the fonts for both LaTeX and for OpenOffice.
Photoshop --> Use the GIMP. Again, the user interface is slightly different., even terminology. But a experienced Photoshop user should easily figure out the equivalent nuances on the GIMP.
Above all, I recommend that you hire somebody to help you in the migration process and to give preliminary training.
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 11:52:32AM +0530, Joe Steeve wrote:
Though this approach is good, I'd suggest you hire somebody to help you in the long run.
Absolutely. Did you build the office building yourself? Stop trying to admin the servers if you're not a sysadmin!
MS Access --> I heard the yet to be released Open Office has a
What? Openoffice has been available for a long time.
Satya ilugbom@thesatya.com writes:
MS Access --> I heard the yet to be released Open Office has a
What? Openoffice has been available for a long time.
I meant the new release of OpenOffice.org that is yet to be released.
Hello Mr. Gurjar,
Here is long mail and may be beginners guide to Migration and Change Management.
On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 12:45, neel s Gurjar wrote:
Hi, all i have some querries please see down
Queries : We are Planning to migrate from Windows to Linux Platform.Currently we are having two departments with below hardware and software configurations. We seek your guidance for this migration process. We will be very grateful if you can help us out in this pr We seek your guidance on following queries :-
Before you go head long into this, please consider following.
1. Have you created Vision Document?
2. Have you enrolled Management / Decision Makers into this Vision?
3. Have you done Risk Analyses?
A. Lose of Users Productivity
B. Disruption in normal business activity
C. Availability / Non-availability of Applications, Vendor Support
D. Technological Change management related issues
E. Availability of Technical and Non-Technical Manpower?
4. Have you presented Risk Analyses to Management?
5. Have created Objectives and Goals?
6. Have you created Migration / Implementation Plan?
7. Have you created contingency Plan?
8. Have you Enrolled Users into you Vision and Plan?
9. Have you formulated User Training Plan?
If the answer to any of the questions is NO then please consider dropping the whole IDEA of Migration.
If the answers to the all of the above questions are YES then consider taking following steps.
If you really want to move to GNU/Linux Desktop, you must ask few questions to yourself and your users. These answers will help you understand the needs of your organisation and help you in charting and planning the right course of action.
Here are the few of the questions.
1. Why are we moving to GNU/Linux Desktop?
2. What will be the cost implications in terms of acquisition, training, support, maintenance and upgrades for Hardware and software over the period of 3 to 5 years?
3. Do we have trained manpower to train end users and support GNU/Linux Desktops and Servers?
4. Does GNU/Linux Desktops has all the applications required by users?
5. Will this cause any inter-operable and data exchange issues with internal users, Vendors, Partners and Customers?
6. Are we going to maintain heterogeneous OS environment?
7. Do we have any special/custom applications which is not available on GNU/Linux Desktop?
8. Do we have User, Information and Security Policies in place?
Also, get following info from the users.
1. Which office application suite you are using? 2. Which Internet Browser you are using? 3. Which e-Mail Client you are using? 4. Which Instant Messaging/Chat Client(s) you are using? 5. Are you using any other or special application(s)? 6. How do you share and exchange files and data with your colleagues, vendors, partners and customers? 7. What are the common file types you deal with? File types like Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations, Graphics and Pictures etc.? 8. What is your level of adaptability to new Operating Environment? 9. Will you be comfortable in using something new and different? 10. Will it affect your productivity and performance? How? 11. Are you comfortable in paper based office communication? Or are you comfortable in electronic office communication? Which one would you prefer more? Why?
If the above sound to be too much get external consultants to help you.
Better still, don't do this WITHOUT having external consultants.
Remember, the problem is not the Technology. The problem is people and their mindset.
What you need the most is CHANGE MANAGEMENT.
Please reply neel
Hope this will help you and other in managing the Migration from one technology to any other technology.
With regards,
On Tuesday 01 Mar 2005 7:38 pm, Dinesh Shah wrote:
Before you go head long into this, please consider following.
in my opinion, this is an overengineered solution which will never work. The way to go is incremental changes. Start small with one or two machines, see how it goes. Experiment with various set ups and software. If it goes fine, expand. Keep the old running and progressively migrate to the new.
the easiest thing to shift is the mail-internet proxy server. Set up a linux box side by side with the old windoze, and when comfortable shift to it. Then do one desktop. then next
Before you go head long into this, please consider following.
in my opinion, this is an overengineered solution which will never work. The way to go is incremental changes. Start small with one or two machines, see how it goes. Experiment with various set ups and software. If it goes fine, expand. Keep the old running and progressively migrate to the new.
True. But doing the detailed analysis first would definitely help. The implementation can be in phases. But then some people believe in reducing the number of cigarettes in phases till null whereas some believe in abstaining totally from day one. :-)
On Wednesday 02 Mar 2005 10:12 am, Vinayakam Murugan wrote:
Before you go head long into this, please consider following.
in my opinion, this is an overengineered solution which will never work. The way to go is incremental changes. Start small with one or two machines, see how it goes. Experiment with various set ups and software. If it goes fine, expand. Keep the old running and progressively migrate to the new.
True. But doing the detailed analysis first would definitely help. The implementation can be in phases. But then some people believe in reducing the number of cigarettes in phases till null whereas some believe in abstaining totally from day one. :-)
the real bottleneck for the OP is in the dtp stuff. Inkscape is not corel draw, scribus is not pagemaker and the gimp is not photoshop. The devnagri fonts available in unicode are also few. He has to first set up a machine with all of this and see if it fulfills his dtp needs. The rest - mail, office etc are tried and tested in linux and if he uses a newbie friendly distro like mandrake he should have not problem.
The implementation can be in phases. But then some people believe in reducing the number of cigarettes in phases till null whereas some believe in abstaining totally from day one. :-)
this analogy doesnt apply
this analogy doesnt apply
On a lighter note , IMHO it applies to a great extent. (Cigarettes and WIndows)
1) Both are harmful and expensive addictions. 2) People transitioning from both, experience withdrawal symptoms and a lot of temptations ( Snazzy looking software, games) ,etc. 3) Majority of the people would have experienced it at one point or the other. 4) There are fanatical groups who protest against their usage.
:-)
On Wednesday 02 Mar 2005 11:38 am, Vinayakam Murugan wrote:
this analogy doesnt apply
On a lighter note , IMHO it applies to a great extent. (Cigarettes and WIndows)
- Both are harmful and expensive addictions.
- People transitioning from both, experience withdrawal symptoms
and a lot of temptations ( Snazzy looking software, games) ,etc. 3) Majority of the people would have experienced it at one point or the other. 4) There are fanatical groups who protest against their usage.
again i would submit that the analogy is false. In one case (windoze-linux) you are talking migration from one addiction to another, and in the other case (ciggys) you are talking giving up totally.
Giving up an addiction totally can only be done at one shot and forever. Migration *should* be done incrementally and as painlessly as possible.
Hi Kenneth,
On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 07:12, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
in my opinion, this is an overengineered solution which will never work. The way to go is incremental changes. Start small with one or two machines, see how it goes. Experiment with various set ups and software. If it goes fine, expand. Keep the old running and progressively migrate to the new.
At 1st it does look like a bit of work, but needs to be done nevertheless. If one doesn't answer the questions now, one will have to answer those questions later.
Sooner is always better then later. :-)
the easiest thing to shift is the mail-internet proxy server. Set up a linux box side by side with the old windoze, and when comfortable shift to it. Then do one desktop. then next
It would be best to have a concrete plan and road map in place. This document can be useful in measuring your progress and prevents needless fight with the management.
After all one has to take of once job and GNU/Linux's image. :-D
regards kg
Additional inputs are always welcome. With regards,
On Thursday 03 Mar 2005 1:16 pm, Dinesh Shah wrote:
the easiest thing to shift is the mail-internet proxy server. Set up a linux box side by side with the old windoze, and when comfortable shift to it. Then do one desktop. then next
It would be best to have a concrete plan and road map in place. This document can be useful in measuring your progress and prevents needless fight with the management.
apparently the OP doesnt have much clue about linux, so in order to make his plan and road map it would be better if he experiments with a couple of boxes, especially the dtp stuff
*chop*
If the above sound to be too much get external consultants to help you.
Better still, don't do this WITHOUT having external consultants.
Remember, the problem is not the Technology. The problem is people and their mindset.
What you need the most is CHANGE MANAGEMENT.
All the points are pretty valid and need to paid particular attention to in a small-medium sized business.
I think if one elaborates all the points, it can serve as a good how-to for small-medium businesses. What say Mr Dinesh?
Warm wishes,
ah
On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 07:15 +0000, neel s Gurjar wrote:
Hi, all i have some querries please see down
All technical, physological queries can be solved provided you can answer two questions.
1. How much will I save and when? (The when is important, Migration requires investments, its not immidiate magic). 2. What is the reason for my organisation to move?
If you are satisfied with your answer, then refer to these following 2 URL's for desktop migration. http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/2294.html http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246380.pdf
Process of Migration has to be a phased migration, else you are inviting disaster. For small/medium businesses a comprehensive POC might work instead of a pilot.
Amish.
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Amish Munshi -
Amol Hatwar -
Dinesh Shah -
Joe Steeve -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
komal -
neel s Gurjar -
Saswata Banerjee & Associates -
Satya -
Vinayakam Murugan