I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1. Since I will be installing Ubuntu from the moment the machine is first switch on, is there any possibility of getting a refund on the unused Windows 8.1 license? If yes, may I know the general procedure?
Thanks,
~Mayuresh
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS. I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
I have stopped using Linux almost 6 years back. I now use only MAC - both at office and at home.
- Navin Dhanuka
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS. I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
Strange. Then what are you doing on a Linux mailing list?
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 10:54, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I have stopped using Linux almost 6 years back. I now use only MAC - both at office and at home.
Navin Dhanuka
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS. I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
I use a lot of FOSS tools on my MAC. Like bash, ruby, gcc and ssh. Hence.
All possible binaries on Linux or on BSD is available on Mac OS X as well. No body uses the kernel i.e. Linux.
Cheers!!!
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
Strange. Then what are you doing on a Linux mailing list?
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 10:54, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I have stopped using Linux almost 6 years back. I now use only MAC - both at office and at home.
Navin Dhanuka
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with
Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS. I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
-- http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
--
You mean to say Mac OS X has binary emulation layers for Linux and BSD systems? Or did you mean to say a whole lot of FOSS tools are re-packaged for Mac OS X?
Could you justify your statement "No body uses the kernel i.e. Linux"?
Almost all of Google's infrastructure runs on GNU/Linux, so everytime you even execute a Google search, you are still using the Linux kernel, unbeknownst to you.
Just because you can't see something being used, doesn't mean it isn't.
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 11:11, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I use a lot of FOSS tools on my MAC. Like bash, ruby, gcc and ssh. Hence.
All possible binaries on Linux or on BSD is available on Mac OS X as well. No body uses the kernel i.e. Linux.
Cheers!!!
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
Strange. Then what are you doing on a Linux mailing list?
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 10:54, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I have stopped using Linux almost 6 years back. I now use only MAC - both at office and at home.
Navin Dhanuka
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with
Windows 8.1.
I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS. I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
-- http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
--
Peace...
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
You mean to say Mac OS X has binary emulation layers for Linux and BSD systems? Or did you mean to say a whole lot of FOSS tools are re-packaged for Mac OS X?
Could you justify your statement "No body uses the kernel i.e. Linux"?
Almost all of Google's infrastructure runs on GNU/Linux, so everytime you even execute a Google search, you are still using the Linux kernel, unbeknownst to you.
Just because you can't see something being used, doesn't mean it isn't.
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 11:11, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I use a lot of FOSS tools on my MAC. Like bash, ruby, gcc and ssh. Hence.
All possible binaries on Linux or on BSD is available on Mac OS X as well. No body uses the kernel i.e. Linux.
Cheers!!!
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
Strange. Then what are you doing on a Linux mailing list?
~Mayuresh
On 2014-08-20 10:54, Navin Dhanuka wrote:
I have stopped using Linux almost 6 years back.
I now use only MAC - both at office and at home.
Navin Dhanuka
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
On 2014-08-20 10:42, Vikram Vincent wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with
> Windows 8.1. > > > I bought my Lenovo Thinkpad over flipkart and it came with free dos, three years warranty and a lot of happiness.
Yes, some of the ThinkPads do come with FreeDOS.
I intend to purchase one of the X series which is pre-installed with Windows.
~Mayuresh
-- http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
--
--
2014-08-20 10:42 GMT+05:30 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
Just today we got the final draft of the legal notice to be send to HP. Once Prasanth files the notice, I will be happy to share it.
more on this saga http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2014/06/24/microsoft-tax-refund/
On Wednesday 20 August 2014 11:10 PM, Pirate Praveen wrote:
2014-08-20 10:42 GMT+05:30 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
Just today we got the final draft of the legal notice to be send to HP. Once Prasanth files the notice, I will be happy to share it.
more on this saga http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2014/06/24/microsoft-tax-refund/
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Pirate Praveen praveen@onenetbeyond.org wrote:
On Wednesday 20 August 2014 11:10 PM, Pirate Praveen wrote:
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
Real braveheart and bravo.
-- Arun Khan
On 11 Sep 2014 12:56, "Pirate Praveen" praveen@onenetbeyond.org wrote:
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
Bravo for this initiative, all who are part of it!
I see some issues with getting a refund and starting a flood:
1. OEMs get an OEM license from Microsoft for installing Windows on to consumer PCs - the terms may be negotiated, and pricing may be very low for a leading OEM like HP (though not negligible) - would the OEM or Microsoft be willing to make their pricing public?
2. Both the OEM and Microsoft can say that the OS is an essential part of the system, as the proprietary drivers of some components will not run on any other OS, and alternative drivers may have unintended effects or illegal uses (such as SDR manipulation)
3. They could also claim that it would be virtually impossible to verify whether each request for refund has come after Microsoft software had been removed completely (and we can't allow them to implement a kill switch)
4. They could claim that they would be unable to market and sell their products without a warranty for performance and quality if they are unable to control which OS is loaded on to the PC, and that blank devices can only be niche, probably obsolete products
5. Microsoft tax is also the name for the underhand practice where it extracts a heavy price for licenses from OEMs that sell more than a certain percentage of Linux PCs, and no OEM would want to acknowledge this publicly
6. OEMs rely on quick obsolescence, which is accentuated with Microsoft bloatware, to keep on getting your money every few years - Linux makes this cycle much longer, plus after sales service harder - so no positive incentive for them
And so on and so forth. Of course, you'll appreciate that I'm just playing the devil's advocate here to help us consider what would be the best strategy for getting a wider range of devices without a preloaded OS. The demand for this option is minuscule, as most Linux enthusiasts would not mind having a dual boot system, if it allowed them more choice in how they use the device. India, especially, sees people buy these OS-free PCs to install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus defeating the whole purpose for which many people have devoted huge amounts of energy and time.
Anyway, all the best with the case. I wish you success.
-nd
On Thursday 11 September 2014 05:04 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
On 11 Sep 2014 12:56, "Pirate Praveen" praveen@onenetbeyond.org wrote:
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
Bravo for this initiative, all who are part of it!
A copy of the notice is available at https://mediacru.sh/download/FIF_461bKH5T.pdf
I see some issues with getting a refund and starting a flood:
- OEMs get an OEM license from Microsoft for installing Windows on to
consumer PCs - the terms may be negotiated, and pricing may be very low for a leading OEM like HP (though not negligible) - would the OEM or Microsoft be willing to make their pricing public?
Acer America has a refund policy and they mention the refund amount https://acer.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/280/kw/windows%20refund
- Both the OEM and Microsoft can say that the OS is an essential part of
the system, as the proprietary drivers of some components will not run on any other OS, and alternative drivers may have unintended effects or illegal uses (such as SDR manipulation)
Good point. That would be an incentive for us to push for free drivers (another battle we have to fight) and choose an A-platinum rated hardware listed at http://h-node.org/ (it lists only a single high end model that is released in 2014 and about 9 models that released in 2013, we have to certify more models there. Anyone interested in certifying laptops at this months' meetup at Directiplex? All we need a gnewsense or another FSF certified distro live cd, debian live at the moment doesn't have a recent testing image.)
- They could also claim that it would be virtually impossible to verify
whether each request for refund has come after Microsoft software had been removed completely (and we can't allow them to implement a kill switch)
Acer America asks the user to submit the laptop at their service center. It will be removed by Acer personnel.
- They could claim that they would be unable to market and sell their
products without a warranty for performance and quality if they are unable to control which OS is loaded on to the PC, and that blank devices can only be niche, probably obsolete products
Not a good argument. They cannot get away that easily from providing hardware warranty because a different OS is chosen by the user.
- Microsoft tax is also the name for the underhand practice where it
extracts a heavy price for licenses from OEMs that sell more than a certain percentage of Linux PCs, and no OEM would want to acknowledge this publicly
Well, its their call anyway whether to make it public or not.
- OEMs rely on quick obsolescence, which is accentuated with Microsoft
bloatware, to keep on getting your money every few years - Linux makes this cycle much longer, plus after sales service harder - so no positive incentive for them
I don't think they would make that argument publicly.
And so on and so forth. Of course, you'll appreciate that I'm just playing the devil's advocate here to help us consider what would be the best strategy for getting a wider range of devices without a preloaded OS. The demand for this option is minuscule, as most Linux enthusiasts would not mind having a dual boot system, if it allowed them more choice in how they use the device. India, especially, sees people buy these OS-free PCs to install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus defeating the whole purpose for which many people have devoted huge amounts of energy and time.
Things are changing in many places with GNU/Linux taught in schools. People know they have a choice and cost of choosing freedom isn't very high.
Anyway, all the best with the case. I wish you success.
-nd
India, especially, sees people buy these OS-free PCs to install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus defeating the whole purpose for which many people have devoted huge amounts of energy and time.
In India, one needs to have dual boot PCs as certain govt departments deliberately favour microsoft. eg. The passport renewal pdf (from passportindia.gov.in etc)needs acrobat reader for windows as evince, okular and even adobe reader for linux do not work properly to fill the form. I have tried adobe reader 9.5 under ubuntu 14.04 to fill the 3 page application form--after reaching the submit/validate button, the entire application crashes or shuts off. The form/pdf could only be properly filled in acrobat reader 9 under windows7 by me.
Similarly for users of PNB's corporate banking facility online, the webpages are deliberately fixed to use only internet explorer. Using addons like user agent in firefox etc really does not help--and how many linux/ubuntu users in the corporate world would go to so much trouble to just access a website.
Then many cheap and easily available hardware such as webcams or usb wifi devices now coming in the market don't have proper linux/ubuntu modules/drivers and its not easy for laymen to install the modules
I tried to push the use of libreoffice across my organisation but there was too much HIDDEN resistance from users too set in their ways--also TOP MGT not being computer savvy did not understand the advantages of FOSS which would have been a sequel to move the entire organisation to Ubuntu later in the future.
Kussh
Even the Income tax department's ITR form in xls format (i don't remember correctly--i think it was ITR2 for HUF or ITR5) does not open properly under libreoffice. One who uses ubuntu has to opt for the java format of the particular ITR form to fill and submit online. Most people who are laymen using computers/ubuntu cannot handle the problems caused by govt departments.
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:52 PM, K Singh triveni.2com@gmail.com wrote:
India, especially, sees people buy these OS-free PCs to install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus defeating the whole
purpose
for which many people have devoted huge amounts of energy and time.
In India, one needs to have dual boot PCs as certain govt departments deliberately favour microsoft. eg. The passport renewal pdf (from passportindia.gov.in etc)needs acrobat reader for windows as evince, okular and even adobe reader for linux do not work properly to fill the form. I have tried adobe reader 9.5 under ubuntu 14.04 to fill the 3 page application form--after reaching the submit/validate button, the entire application crashes or shuts off. The form/pdf could only be properly filled in acrobat reader 9 under windows7 by me.
Similarly for users of PNB's corporate banking facility online, the webpages are deliberately fixed to use only internet explorer. Using addons like user agent in firefox etc really does not help--and how many linux/ubuntu users in the corporate world would go to so much trouble to just access a website.
Then many cheap and easily available hardware such as webcams or usb wifi devices now coming in the market don't have proper linux/ubuntu modules/drivers and its not easy for laymen to install the modules
I tried to push the use of libreoffice across my organisation but there was too much HIDDEN resistance from users too set in their ways--also TOP MGT not being computer savvy did not understand the advantages of FOSS which would have been a sequel to move the entire organisation to Ubuntu later in the future.
Kussh
On 11-Sep-2014 5:57 pm, "K Singh" triveni.2com@gmail.com wrote:
Even the Income tax department's ITR form in xls format (i don't remember correctly--i think it was ITR2 for HUF or ITR5) does not open properly under libreoffice. One who uses ubuntu has to opt for the java format of the particular ITR form to fill and submit online. Most people who are laymen using computers/ubuntu cannot handle the problems caused by govt departments.
True, the XLS version doesn't work, but you have to appreciate the govt for making the effort to get a java version available. It looks like a beast, and needed a little love to get it started and running, but once it was running, i was able to successfully file the returns for my mom-in-law for AY2013-14. Note, this is the first year that i have been able to the computation and filing this entirely on Fedora without resorting to my Windows VM, so i have to admit it is a big step forward. I do hope they eventually make a web-based version of the form available, but until then, this is good enough.
Sadly, more often then not, Govt departments are woefully lacking in tech skills and make some really bad decisions in regards to interoperability, so we should all keep up our education and awareness efforts so that it eventually gets to them.
Regards
R. K. Rajeev
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:52 PM, K Singh triveni.2com@gmail.com wrote:
India, especially, sees people buy these OS-free PCs to install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus defeating the whole
purpose
for which many people have devoted huge amounts of energy and time.
In India, one needs to have dual boot PCs as certain govt departments deliberately favour microsoft. eg. The passport renewal pdf (from passportindia.gov.in etc)needs acrobat reader for windows as evince, okular and even adobe reader for linux do not work properly to fill the form. I have tried adobe reader 9.5 under ubuntu 14.04 to fill the 3
page
application form--after reaching the submit/validate button, the entire application crashes or shuts off. The form/pdf could only be properly filled in acrobat reader 9 under windows7 by me.
Similarly for users of PNB's corporate banking facility online, the webpages are deliberately fixed to use only internet explorer. Using
addons
like user agent in firefox etc really does not help--and how many linux/ubuntu users in the corporate world would go to so much trouble to just access a website.
Then many cheap and easily available hardware such as webcams or usb
wifi
devices now coming in the market don't have proper linux/ubuntu modules/drivers and its not easy for laymen to install the modules
I tried to push the use of libreoffice across my organisation but there was too much HIDDEN resistance from users too set in their ways--also
TOP
MGT not being computer savvy did not understand the advantages of FOSS which would have been a sequel to move the entire organisation to Ubuntu later in the future.
Kussh
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Rajeev R. K. rajeevrk@gmail.com wrote:
Sadly, more often then not, Govt departments are woefully lacking in tech skills and make some really bad decisions in regards to interoperability, so we should all keep up our education and awareness efforts so that it eventually gets to them.
I agree with you. We have to be ever vigilant watchdogs and keep pestering and following up with govt deptts to become foss oriented-- one of the reasons why broadminded officers cannot get FOSS implemented is not only lack of awareness but also CONFLICTING responses from people they turn to --within the NIC (national informatics centre) itself. There is lack of credibility, competence and ethics with people/small time organisations responding to tenders and Requests for Quotations where FOSS is concerned atleast in smaller towns/cities. It needs GRIT to become successful in GOVT related IT projects as the top man changes or is transferred.
Kussh
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:53 PM, K Singh triveni.2com@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Rajeev R. K. rajeevrk@gmail.com wrote:
Sadly, more often then not, Govt departments are woefully lacking in
tech
skills and make some really bad decisions in regards to
interoperability,
so we should all keep up our education and awareness efforts so that it eventually gets to them.
I agree with you. We have to be ever vigilant watchdogs and keep pestering and following up with govt deptts to become foss oriented-- one of the reasons why broadminded officers cannot get FOSS implemented is not only lack of awareness but also CONFLICTING responses from people they turn to --within the NIC (national informatics centre) itself. There is lack of credibility, competence and ethics with people/small time organisations responding to tenders and Requests for Quotations where FOSS is concerned atleast in smaller towns/cities. It needs GRIT to become successful in GOVT related IT projects as the top man changes or is transferred.
A number of government sites wont work behind a proxy. Atleast until last year
Kussh
Dear Shri K Singh,
Sharing thoughts of limtation / shortcomings of Ubuntu or FOSS is an unique way of hinderance to majority of our users. Basically We all Open source lovers need to consolidate our positions i.e. we need to create database of our support group with details such as Name, competency level of him / her (beginner/ moderate / good/ v good / best competency), organisation where he / she is working, Position he / she is working as. No. of years experience, contact data (email, cell no if one desires to share), type of work carried out in organisation, What open source softwares are used now, what open source softwares are intended to use, except attitude resistance issue what technical challenge forecasted to face for carrying out Organisation task (Keep in mind the task to be carried out in respect of Organisation only to consider and not the Individual user task), remark if any.
This data in excel format to make a database as per region of Indian states, so that the group can co-ordinate with nearest support group member to tackle the issue and will have morale building help to all of us.
We need to concentrate on the issue of taking out work related requirement using all open source softwares in the Organisation, individual needs can be taken care if possible and the emphasis of the delivery of all the work of Organisation against a sizeable cost saving to be focussed to the higher up to justify the implementation of Open source against the licensed softwares. Further the enhanced support group can help in addressing the issues of concern by way of sharing experiences and research / modifications carried out by them for tackling issues at their end, help line support for such Open source can be initiated using NGO fund support like toll free no can be explored in due course.
I know I am thinking very ideal way and there are lots of effort needed but if we step forward together we will achieve miles very fast. As IT person we always are considered as delivery / service provider. We are doing customer service in our Organisation and outside too, we have a dual role to play while implementing Information Communication technology (ICT) tools whereby in our Organisation we are selling these tools useful for the Organisation as if we are the owner of them and are seen successful if those are implemented accepted and used by our Organisation users effectively, further we need to ensure the flawless implementation of these tools and services for users from the service provider. The selection of these tools by minute analysis of these tools is like research on it and have hands on experience of it prior to it being implemented for organisation.
When we all will have same wave length, we will be able to fromulate such support and virtual sharing of such implementations shared amongst all of us / Web soon. Looking for taking step forward nowon, Good luck to all of us.
We can initiate a session for this discussion, if any one wish to hsare some location for this event we can promote such discussion session and move forward. Do comment.
Regards,
DulangeS. 09819294898.
-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 11/9/14, K Singh triveni.2com@gmail.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] unused Windows 8.1 license : refund available? To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Date: Thursday, 11 September, 2014, 5:52 PM
India, especially, sees people
buy these OS-free PCs to
install pirated copies of Windows on them, thus
defeating the whole purpose
for which many people have devoted huge amounts of
energy and time.
In India, one needs to have dual boot PCs as certain govt departments deliberately favour microsoft. eg. The passport renewal pdf (from passportindia.gov.in etc)needs acrobat reader for windows as evince, okular and even adobe reader for linux do not work properly to fill the form. I have tried adobe reader 9.5 under ubuntu 14.04 to fill the 3 page application form--after reaching the submit/validate button, the entire application crashes or shuts off. The form/pdf could only be properly filled in acrobat reader 9 under windows7 by me.
Similarly for users of PNB's corporate banking facility online, the webpages are deliberately fixed to use only internet explorer. Using addons like user agent in firefox etc really does not help--and how many linux/ubuntu users in the corporate world would go to so much trouble to just access a website.
Then many cheap and easily available hardware such as webcams or usb wifi devices now coming in the market don't have proper linux/ubuntu modules/drivers and its not easy for laymen to install the modules
I tried to push the use of libreoffice across my organisation but there was too much HIDDEN resistance from users too set in their ways--also TOP MGT not being computer savvy did not understand the advantages of FOSS which would have been a sequel to move the entire organisation to Ubuntu later in the future.
Kussh -- http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Dear Sunil,
I concur with you COMPLETELY.
Lets make a simple spreadsheet first for contact details in one table/sheet, skills and experience summary in another table and see if such a database can be improved/refined over time-- it may have to go over many iterations to become a great weapon for FOSS. Only thing for privacy purposes, the contact details table should be RESTRICTED to a certain extent so that it is not MISUSED--particularly email/phone/address details.
Though this is another topic-- I feel unlike the west, in India there is another problem --our education system has made us TOO COMPETITIVE--even in the Indian FOSS world, there is too much UNHEALTHY COMPETITION, very little sharing CULTURE in India. Very little handholding, very little sharing of experiences. I am talking from the point of view of a non geek or general user who has an interest in Ubuntu/FOSS/ spirit of scientific enquiry etc. Have been using ubuntu since version 6--since 2006 and do most work in it. Most of my problems come when i have to support others for whom i have installed Ubuntu on their computers like my Father and colleagues.
Also in India, every geek thinks he has something GREAT under his belt and acting SUPERIOR enhances their reputation. Its quite a negative attitude. Most Linux users here are users rather than innovators or parts of new technical projects--only a small percentage are really DEVELOPERS or collaborators of FREE SOFTWARES or even help in the DOCUMENTATION (including self).
This list is one place where i feel there is quite a bit of REAL SHARING and LEARNING-- i have always felt at home here though now I live in Chandigarh.
Kussh
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:04 PM, SunD dsunil69@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear Shri K Singh,
Sharing thoughts of limtation / shortcomings of Ubuntu or FOSS is an unique way of hinderance to majority of our users. Basically We all Open source lovers need to consolidate our positions i.e. we need to create database of our support group with details such as Name, competency level of him / her (beginner/ moderate / good/ v good / best competency), organisation where he / she is working, Position he / she is working as. No. of years experience, contact data (email, cell no if one desires to share), type of work carried out in organisation, What open source softwares are used now, what open source softwares are intended to use, except attitude resistance issue what technical challenge forecasted to face for carrying out Organisation task (Keep in mind the task to be carried out in respect of Organisation only to consider and not the Individual user task), remark if any.
This data in excel format to make a database as per region of Indian states, so that the group can co-ordinate with nearest support group member to tackle the issue and will have morale building help to all of us.
We need to concentrate on the issue of taking out work related requirement using all open source softwares in the Organisation, individual needs can be taken care if possible and the emphasis of the delivery of all the work of Organisation against a sizeable cost saving to be focussed to the higher up to justify the implementation of Open source against the licensed softwares. Further the enhanced support group can help in addressing the issues of concern by way of sharing experiences and research / modifications carried out by them for tackling issues at their end, help line support for such Open source can be initiated using NGO fund support like toll free no can be explored in due course.
I know I am thinking very ideal way and there are lots of effort needed but if we step forward together we will achieve miles very fast. As IT person we always are considered as delivery / service provider. We are doing customer service in our Organisation and outside too, we have a dual role to play while implementing Information Communication technology (ICT) tools whereby in our Organisation we are selling these tools useful for the Organisation as if we are the owner of them and are seen successful if those are implemented accepted and used by our Organisation users effectively, further we need to ensure the flawless implementation of these tools and services for users from the service provider. The selection of these tools by minute analysis of these tools is like research on it and have hands on experience of it prior to it being implemented for organisation.
When we all will have same wave length, we will be able to fromulate such support and virtual sharing of such implementations shared amongst all of us / Web soon. Looking for taking step forward nowon, Good luck to all of us.
We can initiate a session for this discussion, if any one wish to hsare some location for this event we can promote such discussion session and move forward. Do comment.
Regards,
DulangeS. 09819294898.
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Nishit Dave stargazer.dave@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 Sep 2014 12:56, "Pirate Praveen" praveen@onenetbeyond.org wrote:
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
Bravo for this initiative, all who are part of it!
I see some issues with getting a refund and starting a flood:
- OEMs get an OEM license from Microsoft for installing Windows on to
consumer PCs - the terms may be negotiated, and pricing may be very low for a leading OEM like HP (though not negligible) - would the OEM or Microsoft be willing to make their pricing public?
One would have to take whatever they declare as price.
- Both the OEM and Microsoft can say that the OS is an essential part of
the system, as the proprietary drivers of some components will not run on any other OS, and alternative drivers may have unintended effects or illegal uses (such as SDR manipulation)
Irrelevant. The user has an alternative
- They could also claim that it would be virtually impossible to verify
whether each request for refund has come after Microsoft software had been removed completely (and we can't allow them to implement a kill switch)
Irrelevant again. They have to prove otherwise
- They could claim that they would be unable to market and sell their
products without a warranty for performance and quality if they are unable to control which OS is loaded on to the PC, and that blank devices can only be niche, probably obsolete products
In which case they should be selling the 2 separately.
- Microsoft tax is also the name for the underhand practice where it
extracts a heavy price for licenses from OEMs that sell more than a certain percentage of Linux PCs, and no OEM would want to acknowledge this publicly
Cross subsidy is a legal offence as per the MRTP act.
- OEMs rely on quick obsolescence, which is accentuated with Microsoft
bloatware, to keep on getting your money every few years - Linux makes this cycle much longer, plus after sales service harder - so no positive incentive for them
Irrelevant.
On Thursday 11 September 2014 12:56 PM, Pirate Praveen wrote:
Just today we got the final draft of the legal notice to be send to HP. Once Prasanth files the notice, I will be happy to share it.
more on this saga http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2014/06/24/microsoft-tax-refund/
We have now sent a legal notice to HP on this via Prasanth Sugathan of Software Freedom Law Center and it is covered by Economic times
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/ishan-masdekar-sends-legal...
I came across this news article on FSFE website on Italy's High Court shooting down Windows tax and ruling that a laptop buyer was entitled to receive a refund - http://fsfe.org/news/2014/news-20140912-01.en.html. Glad to see Microsoft tax being tackled head on in many parts of the world.
Thanks & Regards, Guruprasad
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1.
I doubt you will be able to get that back, I bought HP Zbook which is preinstalled windows 7, I formated whole hardisk and reinstalled Ubuntu :)
Since I will be installing Ubuntu from the moment the machine is first
switch on, is there any possibility of getting a refund on the unused Windows 8.1 license? If yes, may I know the general procedure?
Thanks,
~Mayuresh
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1. Since I will be installing Ubuntu from the moment the machine is first switch on, is there any possibility of getting a refund on the unused Windows 8.1 license? If yes, may I know the general procedure?
Doesn't seem like a success: http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Microsoft_Tax_Refund_Quest
As an alternative you may try Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition which comes with Ubuntu.
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
Not available in India though.
There is a case in the court scheduled for hearing against the M$ tax. Keep your bill handy.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Avinash Sultanpur grokavi@gmail.com wrote:
On 20 August 2014 10:33, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@kathe.in wrote:
I intend to purchase a Lenovo ThinkPad which comes pre-installed with Windows 8.1. Since I will be installing Ubuntu from the moment the machine is first switch on, is there any possibility of getting a refund on the unused Windows 8.1 license? If yes, may I know the general procedure?
Doesn't seem like a success: http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Microsoft_Tax_Refund_Quest
As an alternative you may try Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition which comes with Ubuntu.
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pdNot available in India though.
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Arun Khan -
Avinash Sultanpur -
J T Dsouza -
K Singh -
L. Guruprasad -
Mayuresh Kathe -
Mukesh Yadav -
Navin Dhanuka -
Nishit Dave -
Pirate Praveen -
Pirate Praveen -
Rajeev R. K. -
SunD -
Vikram Vincent