If you are even remotely interested in GNU/Linux, you _should_ know about GNU, the GNU Project and rms! I don't say that you need to know that the `m' in `rms' is Matthew, but you should at least have heard about Richard Stallman.
True. But it is not so easy. Everyday I come across people who know about Linux, but not about GNU; people who know about Open Source but not about Free Software; people who know about Linus Torvalds and not about RMS. It is a very sorry state of affairs, but thats a reality. This is in no way helped by the constant debates on why one should call it GNU/Linux instead of Linux or the other way around.
My observation is that most of these people are simple-minded ignorant characters who need someone to 'drill' the facts into their head.
This very person who does not know who RMS is or what GNU is might already know Linus Torvalds.
Cheers, Debarshi
On 8/14/06, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray debarshi.ray@gmail.com wrote:
My observation is that most of these people are simple-minded ignorant characters who need someone to 'drill' the facts into their head.
I believe it's more the case of people wanting to use GNU/linux for various reasons (cost, speed, security, etc.) and hence coming here for help. Many probably haven't really thought about the Free Software movement, but that doesn't make them simple-minded or ignorant. They'll definitely know some other things that you wouldn't.
For most computer users, the computer is nothing but a tool to get work done. Everyone who uses a car doesn't have to know who Henry Ford is, forget about knowing what he's called in "car hacker" circles.
Regards, Siddhesh Poyarekar
On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 10:52:53PM +0530, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray wrote:
My observation is that most of these people are simple-minded ignorant characters who need someone to 'drill' the facts into their head.
This statement comes as a surprise from you. Why is everybody expected to know about gnu or freedom (software) when everyone is not from the computer software field and has switched over from windows to linux as an operating system only. Ideologies take time to get induced and spread.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Ideologies take time to get induced and spread.
This reminds me of my own experience. I was first introduced to Linux in 1996 by a great friend in IIT (Amitay). I had no knowledge of the GNU/Linux portion at that time.
Then in 1999, my firm started a company to sell services using Linux based servers. On one of my sales call to ANZ, I was telling the IT manager why Linux is so great, but I was stuck when he asked me why the OS was free.
Then in 2001, I attended a public lecture at TIFR given by RMS and that was a new day for me.
It was only that day, I realized - Free and Open Source software were quite different - The word 'free' in Free software was about freedom and not price
So in my case the ideology happened after 5 years of using the software. :-)
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 03:40, Rishi wrote:
It was only that day, I realized
- Free and Open Source software were quite different
- The word 'free' in Free software was about freedom and not price
So in my case the ideology happened after 5 years of using the software. :-)
In essence, Free software and Open Source software mean the same thing. "Open source" is just used to market "Free software". How you misunderstood "Free" Software to be free in cost terms, many would misunderstand. Hence the term Open source was coined.
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 04:25 pm, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 03:40, Rishi wrote:
It was only that day, I realized
- Free and Open Source software were quite different
- The word 'free' in Free software was about freedom and not
price
So in my case the ideology happened after 5 years of using the software. :-)
In essence, Free software and Open Source software mean the same thing.
They dont mean the same thing all though they refer to the same body of software.
"Open source" is just used to market "Free software".
That is very apt summary. And as usual Marketing will focus on features that make a sale, completely ignoring other vital params that actually bring value.
On 8/16/06, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 04:25 pm, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 03:40, Rishi wrote:
It was only that day, I realized
- Free and Open Source software were quite different
- The word 'free' in Free software was about freedom and not
price
So in my case the ideology happened after 5 years of using the software. :-)
In essence, Free software and Open Source software mean the same thing.
They dont mean the same thing all though they refer to the same body of software.
I wish to add something here, something I learned in my graduate courses in Philosophy some 12 years ago. There is an expression called 'evening star', and another called 'morning star'. They both refer to the same thing, namely the planet, venus. Since this object appears first to the naked eye, and is very bright that can be seen even before dark, it is called by this name. The expressions have different meanings, but the same reference. But the name 'Planet Venus' clarifies that it is not a star, but planet, and the notiion of what astronomical objects are planet are well defined.
Similarly, the terms 'free software' and 'open source' are very different in their meaning, but they refer to more or less the same set of software with very minor excpetions. Most people think that 'open source' is clear in meaning while 'free software' is confusing. This is because we tend to add our own meaning from other meaning of what is free and what is software, without realizing that this term is not derived by combining these two terms. The term ' free software' is a well defined technical term, i.e., any software that has the four freedoms (0,1,2,3) is a free software. This definition is as good as the criteria given to planet, which helps us to arrive at an unambiguous class of software that are give users the four freedoms. 'Open source' on the other hand is defined by the set of licenses that are approved by OSF as open source. A few of the licenses that are declared OS are not FS. Therefore there is some difference in the reference too. The criteria applied for FS are more clearly defined than OS. FS definition therefore is more scientific than the OS.
Therefore the difference in meaning is more than the difference in reference.
Another way to look at the issue is: take the terms 'energy', 'work', 'force' in physics. They all have common meaning in folklore. If we think they have the same meaning in science as in folklore just because they are spelled similar, we are wrong. the terms in physics are technical terms, well defined by operational conditions/criteria. Similarly, the FS is a technical term though the terms are taken from folklore, they are re-defined.
Nagarjuna
On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:10 +0530, Nagarjuna G. wrote:
I wish to add something here, something I learned in my graduate courses in Philosophy some 12 years ago. There is an expression called 'evening star', and another called 'morning star'. They both refer to the same thing, namely the planet, venus. Since this object appears first to the naked eye, and is very bright that can be seen even before dark, it is called by this name. The expressions have different meanings, but the same reference. But the name 'Planet Venus' clarifies that it is not a star, but planet, and the notiion of what astronomical objects are planet are well defined.
Totally off-topic but couldn't resist this - 'Planet' is being redefined :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/us/16pluto.html?ex=1313380800&en=9f678...
-gabin
In essence, Free software and Open Source software mean the same thing. "Open source" is just used to market "Free software". How you misunderstood "Free" Software to be free in cost terms, many would misunderstand. Hence the term Open source was coined.
But the whole ethical VS practical issue I realized only after attending the Public Lecture given by RMS... and that is a huge difference between the two. It changes the entire perspective to using the software.
-
Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray -
Dinesh Joshi -
Gabin Kattukaran -
jtd -
Nagarjuna G. -
Rishi -
ronbillypopļ¼ yahoo.co.uk -
Siddhesh Poyarekar