2011/6/29 Rony Bill gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

installed in some places too. Lives of the teachers cannot be made easy if they are burdened with extra labour of preparing Power Point slide shows every day or for every topic. What is happening is that the hardware is being marketed with big ideas and to make it look useful, the teachers have to make the software.

On the contrary, the teachers I have interacted with have been quite appreciative of these "e-learning" boxes in the classrooms. The interactive whiteboards are not just simply a place to project the computer screen; they are, well, interactive. What you write on the board is stored for later re-use. The marker pen behaves like a mouse pointer on a web page (tap for related information on the board).

Teachers already spend a lot of time preparing for classes (my sister-in-law, who teaches Mathematics for Class XII at NPS Bangalore, spends a good 2-3 hours daily preparing for the next day's class). Powerpoint or any other tool at the basic level only substitutes for notebooks in this task.

...

I see a whole host of possibilities, really.

Could you expand on this. I would also like to know from the group if any research has been done on electronic teaching aids and how have they actually made a difference. How are things done in other countries? Has anybody had experiences there?

As I said, I did some work for a company in this field a while back. My team visited several schools in the eastern belt (Kolkata and suburbs, Bhubaneshwar, Hyderabad and Chennai); almost every teacher we spoke to had only kind words to say about these products. I personally sat through a class (Class II) in South City School, Kolkata - the kids of the class really enjoyed interacting with the whiteboard.

Imagine a geography class with Google Earth. Or a Chemistry class with a periodic table on the whiteboard that responds to clicks. The possibilities are endless. Some of the schools we visited had eliminated all paper/canvas maps and charts from their libraries.

In summary, school administrators, teachers and students we interacted with were all impressed by these devices - the only thing that inhibits their adoption is that they are quite expensive.

Binand

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

I did some web searching on this subject and there are some nice eye opening articles on this technology and every school management must

Did you find anything relevant to the Indian milieu during your research?

Binand

On Thursday 30 Jun 2011 22:34:15 Rony wrote:

On 06/30/2011 09:47 AM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:

...

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

...

I did some web searching on this subject and there are some nice eye opening articles on this technology and every school management must

Did you find anything relevant to the Indian milieu during your research?

It is still young and what happened in the US is now happening here with the same players amongst the rest. What I feel individually is that these are high end presentation products meant for corporate offices and not for schools, that too in every classroom. Simply calling them teaching aids does not change things. We don't even have the entire syllabus of every class and subject available fully in professional and electronic format. If schools want to go digital then a simple projector and computer in every class or in a special room is sufficient. Schools must invest in professional grade content not gadgets.

You should visit with Dr. Nagrjuna and Ganesh/ Amit etc on their visit to khalapur to understand what ICT is all about. ICT requires the student to be in control, asking questions, generating data, interacting with their immediate environment, in applying the principles of science, maths, arts etc. That is learning and more importantly that is what teaching is all about.

Education in most places has degraded to hand me downs from teacher to student and ICT is reduced to gizmos like the white board. How many students have their own lab? or their own music / story / recording facility.

On Friday 01 Jul 2011 17:59:55 Rony wrote:

On 06/30/2011 11:40 PM, jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:

...

On Thursday 30 Jun 2011 22:34:15 Rony wrote:

...

On 06/30/2011 09:47 AM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:

...

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

...

I did some web searching on this subject and there are some nice eye opening articles on this technology and every school management must

Did you find anything relevant to the Indian milieu during your research?

It is still young and what happened in the US is now happening here with the same players amongst the rest. What I feel individually is that these are high end presentation products meant for corporate offices and not for schools, that too in every classroom. Simply calling them teaching aids does not change things. We don't even have the entire syllabus of every class and subject available fully in professional and electronic format. If schools want to go digital then a simple projector and computer in every class or in a special room is sufficient. Schools must invest in professional grade content not gadgets.

You should visit with Dr. Nagrjuna and Ganesh/ Amit etc on their visit to khalapur to understand what ICT is all about. ICT requires the student to be in control, asking questions, generating data, interacting with their immediate environment, in applying the principles of science, maths, arts etc. That is learning and more importantly that is what teaching is all about.

Education in most places has degraded to hand me downs from teacher to student and ICT is reduced to gizmos like the white board. How many students have their own lab? or their own music / story / recording facility.

Are you replying to my mail or Binand's?

Mostly to Binand's. But also recommend that you visit with Dr. Nags.

On Friday 01 Jul 2011 19:17:57 Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:

Greetings,

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:40 PM, jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:

...

On Thursday 30 Jun 2011 22:34:15 Rony wrote:

...

On 06/30/2011 09:47 AM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:

...

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

...

I did some web searching on this subject and there are some nice eye opening articles on this technology and every school management must

Did you find anything relevant to the Indian milieu during your research?

It is still young and what happened in the US is now happening here with the same players amongst the rest. What I feel individually is that these are high end presentation products meant for corporate offices and not for schools, that too in every classroom. Simply calling them teaching aids does not change things. We don't even have the entire syllabus of every class and subject available fully in professional and electronic format. If schools want to go digital then a simple projector and computer in every class or in a special room is sufficient. Schools must invest in professional grade content not gadgets.

You should visit with Dr. Nagrjuna and Ganesh/ Amit etc on their visit to khalapur to understand what ICT is all about. ICT requires the student to be in control, asking questions, generating data, interacting with their immediate environment, in applying the principles of science, maths, arts etc. That is learning and more importantly that is what teaching is all about.

Education in most places has degraded to hand me downs from teacher to student and ICT is reduced to gizmos like the white board. How many students have their own lab? or their own music / story / recording facility. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

+10

Is there any possibility for me to join such effort? can you mail me some details? I am from Thane,Mumbai

Most definetly. Will ask Dr. Nagarjuna / Amit / Ganesh to keep us posted on their next visits.

On a related note we have been toying with the idea of a "hackers club" where we can pursue hardware and software fun stuff on anything that takes our fancy. The primary motive is to kindle the spirit of experimentation that seems to be systematically killed by our edu system. Hopefully we will have atleast a few collegians joining in.

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

It is still young and what happened in the US is now happening here with the same players amongst the rest. What I feel individually is that these are high end presentation products meant for corporate offices and not for schools, that too in every classroom. Simply calling them teaching aids does not change things. We don't even have the entire syllabus of every class and subject available fully in professional and electronic format. If schools want to go digital then a simple projector and computer in every class or in a special room is sufficient. Schools must invest in professional grade content not gadgets.

In another place, another day I'll take offense on the suggestion that the US leads, and we follow.

As JTD explained, these "high end presentation products" allow the students to be part of the learning experience, as opposed to being detached observers. I mentioned in a previous email that I sat through a class where an IWB was in use - the kids were having fun with it, while also learning about seasons and seasonal changes around the world. It was an eye-opening experience. I suggest you too try to sit in a class where an IWB is used properly.

As far as electronic syllabus goes, a simple Google search throws these links up:

CBSE: http://cbse.nic.in/currisyllabus.htm ICSE: http://www.cisce.org/SyllabusFor_ICSE2011.html Maharashtra: http://msbshse.ac.in/newsite/newhome.html

so I don't really understand what you meant when you said syllabi are not available in electronic format.

A simple projector and computer becomes the original problem - that teachers then will have to create presentations. An IWB combines a lot of things: a regular blackboard with the capability to remember, a vast library including wikipedia, an arts room and so on.

Binand

2011/7/1 jtd@mtnl.net.in:

...

A simple projector and computer becomes the original problem - that teachers then will have to create presentations. An IWB combines a lot of things: a regular blackboard with the capability to remember, a vast library including wikipedia, an arts room and so on.

The problem is that the above does not change the power structure - teacher handing down gyan. Learning is about

1. Putting the kids in charge
2. Converting ALL content to a local context.

It does, actually (I put the qualifier "properly used"). The class I attended had the kids learning about seasons. The teacher simply got out of the way of children and allowed them to explore seasons using the IWB. One kid tried to visualize how the winter in US is. Another wanted to see what season it is in Bangalore then (her dad had left for Bangalore that morning, apparently). And so on. The teacher was guiding, but not controlling or manipulating the class. It was a fantastic experience for me too.

This was South City School, Kolkata and Class II - meaning kids in the 6-7 years group.

Binand

On 07/01/2011 09:20 AM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:

2011/6/30 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

...

It is still young and what happened in the US is now happening here with the same players amongst the rest. What I feel individually is that these are high end presentation products meant for corporate offices and not for schools, that too in every classroom. Simply calling them teaching aids does not change things. We don't even have the entire syllabus of every class and subject available fully in professional and electronic format. If schools want to go digital then a simple projector and computer in every class or in a special room is sufficient. Schools must invest in professional grade content not gadgets.

In another place, another day I'll take offense on the suggestion that the US leads, and we follow.

What I meant was that after they had their fill in the US, they are now tapping the emerging markets in India. Schools are buying these gizmos because others have done it too.

As JTD explained, these "high end presentation products" allow the students to be part of the learning experience, as opposed to being detached observers. I mentioned in a previous email that I sat through a class where an IWB was in use - the kids were having fun with it, while also learning about seasons and seasonal changes around the world. It was an eye-opening experience. I suggest you too try to sit in a class where an IWB is used properly.

I am not sure who JTD was replying to and what equipment is used in Khalapur and how. I don't know about other places but in Mumbai there are about 40 to 50 students in one class and approx. half an hour per lecture. There is not enough time to complete the portion itself, where will they get time to play with these expensive gizmos?

As far as electronic syllabus goes, a simple Google search throws these links up:

CBSE: http://cbse.nic.in/currisyllabus.htm ICSE: http://www.cisce.org/SyllabusFor_ICSE2011.html Maharashtra: http://msbshse.ac.in/newsite/newhome.html

so I don't really understand what you meant when you said syllabi are not available in electronic format.

My mistake. I was referring to course material like all text books and study material professionally made and in electronic format. What is happening is that there is a mad rush to market and buy this hardware for which even the software is not ready. That is why I say that it is an expensive corporate level presentation product that is being pushed into schools as a teaching aid through smooth talking marketing people. Schools are buying these white elephants that are of no use to them and to make them usable, the teachers are being asked to make power point presentations on them. When a school invests half to one crore Rupees or more in this system, shouldn't it be fully ready with proper professional level course material libraries first? Shouldn't the management demand this as a pre-sale condition from those companies who sell these products? How does it justify using a system costing a couple of lakhs each to run small home made slide shows? It is like investing lakhs of Rupees in electronic book readers and then asking teachers to create short notes that can be compiled together into a book.

A simple projector and computer becomes the original problem - that teachers then will have to create presentations. An IWB combines a lot of things: a regular blackboard with the capability to remember, a vast library including wikipedia, an arts room and so on.

Keeping aside the capacity to remember which is hardly used, an IWB is finally just an electronic black board with a projector screen that can show multi-media content. Why are teachers being trained and asked to make power point presentations on these IWBs? And how do you make a power point presentation interactive? It is a slide show anyway. Isn't it obvious that you need professionally made content to make use of and justify the 'interactive' feature of these boards over the conventional projector and computer?

The teachers should not be making slide shows or any content unless they feel inclined to. Professional grade slides, videos etc. should be purchased by the school and that is where money should be invested. The level of the content material should be like those in National Geographic or Discovery channel.

On 07/02/2011 12:12 AM, jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:

On Friday 01 Jul 2011 19:00:59 Rony wrote:

...

I am not sure who JTD was replying to and what equipment is used in Khalapur and how.

OLPC and a server with offline wikipedia

...

The teachers should not be making slide shows or any content unless they feel inclined to. Professional grade slides, videos etc. should be purchased by the school and that is where money should be invested. The level of the content material should be like those in National Geographic or Discovery channel.

That is precisely what you dont want to do - buying someone else's idea of an idea. Content creation must be part of the students work, whereby they can directly feel the original idea. Amit Dhakulkar's use of a gps to teach physics, maths and geography is one such. Kids in Khalapur recording tales told by their grandparents is another. Many such absolutely interesting stuff in Khalapur.

If a subject / topic is to be understood for the first time by a student, how will the discovering method work unless he has some clue of what he needs to discover. Somewhere someone through any means of communication ( Amit D. in your example) will have to introduce the chapter / topic to the students. The beauty of professionally made videos is that this introduction opens up a new world to the kids. They don't just tell you what happens, but why does it happen, how does it happen and what are the consequences. The special cameras, the high resolution images, the timed photos turned into videos, their painstaking number of months / years spent to make one film, all make the entire experience so beautiful and it cannot be replicated in a home made video. During the good old DD days, we had those German Transtel science videos that were so informative and mind opening. As a recreation or as a practical lesson, self made videos are fun though. Everything of these is needed in equal doses to make learning fun. Classroom + Practicals + Videos + Field Trips = Learning Fun.

On 07/03/2011 08:35 AM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:

2011/7/2 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

...

...

That is precisely what you dont want to do - buying someone else's idea of an idea. Content creation must be part of the students work, whereby they can directly feel the original idea. Amit Dhakulkar's use of a gps to teach physics, maths and geography is one such. Kids in Khalapur recording tales told by their grandparents is another. Many such absolutely interesting stuff in Khalapur.

[Apologies for the attribution error. I did not receive the email with this original text]

The teachers have to tread a middle path here. Significant deviations from the syllabi prescribed by the powers to be leads to the wrath of the parents/guardians who dream of their wards acing the class XII exam and getting into a good professional college. Thus they, in the current Indian milieu, cannot allow the students unrestricted content creation access.

True. There has to be some syllabus affiliated to some Board for formal certification and further acceptance of the certification in other institutions. For very interactive communication, the number of students per class has to be drastically reduced too.

So, what happens (again, I am recalling from the market research I did for Next back in November 2009) is that the schools get the hardware and software aligned to the syllabi from the company, and then encourage the students to explore while staying aligned with the pedagogical requirements.

This is not happening in all the Mumbai schools that have these IWBs. Hardware is being sold with limited or no software and teachers are being asked to make power point shows for their daily teaching. Plus, in case any contract is over, _some_ multimedia content will not open. I am repeating my earlier point that showing a video or a slide show or a web site can be done using a simple computer and projector too. The students can also interact as they do with the IWB, by using the mouse and keyboard.

...

If a subject / topic is to be understood for the first time by a student, how will the discovering method work unless he has some clue of what he needs to discover.

This is a very naive view of the world. How did stalwarts like Newton, Darwin or anyone else ever discover anything? Nobody pointed Einstein that there is something called the General Theory of Relativity that is waiting to be discovered.

Newton, Darwin, Einsten were not school children. They had experience and learning behind them. For adults, learning new things is easier as they already have some knowledge foundation over the years. For school children learning everything for the first time, this is not possible.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:

Newton, Darwin, Einsten were not school children. They had experience and learning behind them. For adults, learning new things is easier as they already have some knowledge foundation over the years. For school children learning everything for the first time, this is not possible.

From my observation and what I have heard from others, kids take it so

easily to smart phones and tablets that in no time they end up knowing more than their parents. And sometimes they end up discovering some of the things which their non-tech savvy parents even fail to understand. I think you're underestimating children's curiosity and ability to learn.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:

My point is about learning the yearly syllabus of the school, not general intelligence development. Every subject, every chapter of the syllabus. The child has to be given some introduction to every new topic, new lesson before he/she goes into self learning mode.

Aren't these teaching aids or are they teacher replacement tools?

2011/7/4 Mehul Ved mehul.n.ved@gmail.com:

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:

...

My point is about learning the yearly syllabus of the school, not general intelligence development. Every subject, every chapter of the syllabus. The child has to be given some introduction to every new topic, new lesson before he/she goes into self learning mode.

Aren't these teaching aids or are they teacher replacement tools?

These are teaching aids.

Binand

2011/7/1 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:

presentations on them. When a school invests half to one crore Rupees or more in this system, shouldn't it be fully ready with proper professional level course material libraries first? Shouldn't the

I don't know about others, but both Next Education and Educomp (the market leader in India) have fully developed content libraries that they distribute along with their products. Next's is CBSE-only, Educomp has material for a number of state boards too. Next has a studio in Hyderabad where this content is developed (by teachers, who work on contract).

Binand