Hello All,
The PCQ Linux 2006 writeup in the mag was quite impressive so I tried it out. First of all, the CD media is terrible, it has many file errors. First time, in CD1 itself it had some file errors. On inserting CD2, it simply went into CLI and said the system was ready to reboot. Next time it was another 'dhakka maro' session of opening and closing the cd (Sony DVD) tray but it finally installed.
It is supposed to be FC4 packages based but it is a disgrace to the existing FC4. It could not go beyond 800x600 resolution. It did not detect the sound devices (Both these things worked fine in FC4). The Firefox setup in Kde showed weird behavior. It would not allow me to check/uncheck boxes and as I moved my mouse over it the tick marks would randomly appear and disappear. Finally I just chucked it. After almost a year of FC4 and Ubuntu 5.10, if PCQ comes up with such crap, it will only sabotage the FOSS cause.
I won't be surprised if M$ uses these CDs to show people how good Windows is, over Linux.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
Yep ... PCQuest always screws up. That's why they call it PCQLinux in the first place. Supposedly *customized* for Indian users ... and it shows big time!!! From what you are saying, it sounds like they took the base FC4 and tried to spot upgrade only the major packages to bleeding edge.
I've got the last 6 years worth of CD's (I always buy the March issue) and they are all broken in some major way. Probably the only useful Linux they ever gave was a Debian Sarge (Dec04) which btw was a pristine *un-Indianized* DVD. But I guess I'll still buy the next one - force of habit ;-)
We have to give them some credit though. PCQLinux used to be a big thing maybe 4-5 years ago when broadband connections where sparse and major distro's were not so easily available. And it still serves as the *initiation* system for countless new converts every year. It's just not meant for the serious user anymore!!
- farazs
Faraz Shahbazker wrote:
But I guess I'll still buy the next one - force of habit ;-)
Very true. I still do the same. :)
We have to give them some credit though. PCQLinux used to be a big thing maybe 4-5 years ago when broadband connections where sparse and major distro's were not so easily available. And it still serves as the *initiation* system for countless new converts every year. It's just not meant for the serious user anymore!!
These accidents put people off linux and big Billy goes laughing all the way. The client whose hdd crashed after I installed Linux, paid for a new one but he is permanently terrified of linux.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
On Thu, 2006-03-30 at 11:48 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
These accidents put people off linux and big Billy goes laughing all the way. The client whose hdd crashed after I installed Linux, paid for a new one but he is permanently terrified of linux.
It is better to "try out" with Live CD/DVD Linux distro.
It is unfortunate that your client's HDD decided to crash during a Linux install. It could have happened while booting Windows as well. Just curious how your client would have reacted under this scenario - would he be terrified of using Windows?
On Thu, 2006-03-30 at 00:58 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
Hello All,
The PCQ Linux 2006 writeup in the mag was quite impressive so I tried it out. First of all, the CD media is terrible, it has many file errors. First time, in CD1 itself it had some file errors. On inserting CD2, it simply went into CLI and said the system was ready to reboot. Next time it was another 'dhakka maro' session of opening and closing the cd (Sony DVD) tray but it finally installed.
CD copies that came with my subscription are fine. You can contact their customer support for a fresh copy. They are pretty good about such things.
I installed the extra-lite version only and did not encounter any probs during installation. Spot tested the "xtra-lite" apps and they seemed to be working fine.
Nevertheless, I agree about hardware detection. It did not recognize the well supported SB Live! 5.1 card in my system nor did it recognize the embedded AC'97 compatible sound - SuSE 10.0/FC4 does recognize them.
I plan to install to other configs over the next few days and see how they stack up.
Arun K. Khan wrote:
CD copies that came with my subscription are fine. You can contact their customer support for a fresh copy. They are pretty good about such things.
I will do that. I don't subscribe to mags, I buy them from the news stands. I have faced media problems with PCQ in the past too. All other mags have good packaging.
Nevertheless, I agree about hardware detection. It did not recognize the well supported SB Live! 5.1 card in my system nor did it recognize the embedded AC'97 compatible sound - SuSE 10.0/FC4 does recognize them.
Why are they turning the clock back instead of moving forward.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
Guys, i have been on PCQ forum for almost a year after which I left due to disagreements with a certain member and the pathetic administration of their forum but I would like to tell you all that the people over there have only good intentions. They are good supporters of Linux and OSS. I do agree that since PCQLinux 2004 they have been screwing up their distribution. It is important to remember here that PCQuest is a magazine and not a software development company. They have been making this distro for first time users. It's not upto the mark but you shouldn't go around criticizing it if you have just tried it on one system.
Speaking of how good FC4 was, well they did release it with a broken kernel which didn't boot on most Intel systems. They also did release it with flaws in Xorg which prevents people from entering into any virtual terminal once X server has started.
Some of Rony's comments have gotten me thinking. Vinod Unny who leads ( not sure ) the PCQLinux team is a HUGE supporter of M$. He is some regional manager of M$ I think. We did have flame wars over IE6 vs Firefox and IIS vs Apache. In both of those he went beserk and supported Windoze and actually tried to justify some of their "features" and how secure IE6 really was as compared to Firefox :\
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
JTD wrote:
On Thursday 30 March 2006 12:18 pm, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
In both of those he went beserk and supported Windoze and actually tried to justify some of their "features" and how secure IE6 really was as compared to Firefox :\
And the microserfs call linuxers religious....
Just imagine calling IE6 secure. :-D
I read google news regularly and every second day there is a report on a new IE flaw being detected or a new anti trust case.
http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=19714
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002898668_vista30....
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-security-firms-rush-fill-vacuum-created-redmo...
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Thursday 30 March 2006 07:15, JTD wrote:
And the microserfs call linuxers religious....
You can get a dose of him @ http://forums.pcquest.com :)
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
supporters of Linux and OSS. I do agree that since PCQLinux 2004 they have been screwing up their distribution. It is important to remember here that PCQuest is a magazine and not a software development company. They have been making this distro for first time users. It's
They've been distributing linux CDs since 1996 when they put slackware on a CD.
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
It is important to remember here that PCQuest is a magazine and not a software development company.
True but their misadventures are doing harm to Linux. People ( not familiar with Linux ) get the impression that Linux is for experiments only and is not fit for serious use. Too many cooks are spoiling the great health giving soup. :)
They have been making this distro for first time users. It's not upto the mark but you shouldn't go around criticizing it if you have just tried it on one system.
First time users need an even better distro as they would not know the work around for many problems. One system testing may not be enough but my system uses an Intel processor and an Intel motherboard that is a better one in its category. It should atleast perform the same if not better than the earlier distros.
Speaking of how good FC4 was, well they did release it with a broken kernel which didn't boot on most Intel systems. They also did release it with flaws in Xorg which prevents people from entering into any virtual terminal once X server has started.
True!
Some of Rony's comments have gotten me thinking. Vinod Unny who leads ( not sure ) the PCQLinux team is a HUGE supporter of M$. He is some regional manager of M$ I think. We did have flame wars over IE6 vs Firefox and IIS vs Apache. In both of those he went beserk and supported Windoze and actually tried to justify some of their "features" and how secure IE6 really was as compared to Firefox :\
Hmmm ;)
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
While going through the magazine, I find this article that explains why this time the distro is disappointing.
The article is "Why Linux Cannot Rule the World Yet." by the Editor. The attitude shows.
They should stick to promoting existing time tested distros or participate as testing labs to try them out on various hardware.
This brings to my mind a question to all:-
How does the OSS community ensure that it is not overwhelmed by ham handed programmers who come up with any crappy software and drive away genuine interest in the good softwares or is this the price of freedom?
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On 3/30/06, Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
While going through the magazine, I find this article that explains why this time the distro is disappointing.
The article is "Why Linux Cannot Rule the World Yet." by the Editor. The attitude shows.
<snip>
Looks like the editor is flamed just because he could not fix a small problem(some font problem).
On 3/31/06, Tux user slashemail@gmail.com wrote:
The article is "Why Linux Cannot Rule the World Yet." by the Editor. The attitude shows.
<snip>
Looks like the editor is flamed just because he could not fix a small problem(some font problem).
unfortunately i run into similar kind of problems. i know a lot of people, including my brother, who will simply not even bother to fix any small issue but will go only with the default installation. so first impression does count.
while microsoft may not be the most secure platform, they do have a large follower group who will blindly refuse to even consider any other options no matter how good it is.
while im thankful to pcquest for introducing me to slackware 2.0 many years ago, i really cant support them today with their version of pcquest linux. Nor does linux4india makes their articles interesting enough to buy their magazine.
Ananth
Tux user wrote:
On 3/30/06, Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
While going through the magazine, I find this article that explains why this time the distro is disappointing.
The article is "Why Linux Cannot Rule the World Yet." by the Editor. The attitude shows.
<snip>
Looks like the editor is flamed just because he could not fix a small problem(some font problem).
No! He is flamed for bringing out an experimental product to unsuspecting readers who wait an entire year to have the latest and best updated version of the lot. It also creates a wrong impression about Linux which is a beautiful operating system totally based on community effort and contribution. Unless there is some strict criteria for quality like some minimum standard of performance, open source freedom may end up as a free for all with quality being compromised for variety. The only ones to benefit and have the last laugh will be the commercial organizations who are ever ready to entice and trap more and more users.
It would be interesting to know from PCQ, what were the different motherboards they tested their 2006 distro on, and how many of them had the sound system up and playing without any extra driver installation or tweak ( Keeping in mind new users).
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
It would be interesting to know from PCQ, what were the different motherboards they tested their 2006 distro on, and how many of them had the sound system up and playing without any extra driver installation or tweak ( Keeping in mind new users).
PCQ should blame their poor administration and management. Their beta testers are solely to blame for the distro being so buggy. Serves them right for turning a blind eye everytime someone tried to warn them. Their policies are just going to drive out the good members from their community.
What do you guys see the future for PCQLinux? Will they drop it? or will they come out with something better?
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
A VERY IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE. Has PCQuest released the source code for PCQLinux 2006? If not then they have violated the GNU GPL and I think someone should take legal action against them. I am bugged by this stupid post that Vinod Unny has posted on the PCQforum:
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4390
It reaks of incompetence on their part. Mixing GCC 3.0, 4.0, 4.1 is pure nonsense...! They are not only spoiling GNU/Linux's reputation but also blaming the bugs on everyone except themselves. They have NOT made any attempt to contribute back to the community by filing bug reports. He is constantly blaming OSS and how stupid FOSS / Linux / OSS developers are. At one point he was about to say: Linux kernel is st00pid!!!111 But he didn't dare.
I feel it's time that people don't take us lightly.
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 01:56 +0530, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Sorry for sending so many posts to the list but I just couldn't help but notice that at one point he has said:
...And this is also the place where we recognized the actual worth of
open source - zero!
I am really getting angry now...
Your comments are valid. However, IMO it would be better to post them on the PCQ forums - post your opinions with your rationale and don't get into flame wars. I don't know if any of the PCQuest engineers are subscribed to this list. I have met Aninda Roy, Sanjay Mazumdar on a couple of occasions and they came across as reasonable guys. Suggest you copy Krishna Kumar (editor) if you have not done so.
In the PCQLinux release notes (or somewhere during the install process) I noticed a Dinesh Joshi in the credits - I am guessing it is you.
Be cool and take it easy :)
On 4/1/06, Arun K. Khan knura@yahoo.com wrote:
Your comments are valid. However, IMO it would be better to post them on the PCQ forums - post your opinions with your rationale and don't get into flame wars. I don't know if any of the PCQuest engineers are subscribed to this list. I have met Aninda Roy, Sanjay Mazumdar on a couple of occasions and they came across as reasonable guys. Suggest you copy Krishna Kumar (editor) if you have not done so.
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4283
Have a look at this thread. The person daj123 they are mentioning is me. This is the state of affairs with PCQuest. I had warned them of vulnerabilites in their bulletin board much before it got cracked and defaced, warned them about their registration form. I had mentioned about the bad CSS / HTML they were using on their main website. It rendered pretty bad in Mozilla / Mozilla Firefox on Windows as well as Linux ( which seems to have been fixed now ) Search for daj123's posts and cross reference them with a member called Yamraj. You'll probably understand why I left the place for good. Reasoning with PCQ administration & moderators is like reasoning with a brick wall. No use.
In the PCQLinux release notes (or somewhere during the install process) I noticed a Dinesh Joshi in the credits - I am guessing it is you.
Yes, it is me. I was one of the beta testers on PCQLinux 2005. I don't know what exactly did I do to deserve being put into the credits of PCQLinux 2006. After a few weeks of leaving the forum I received a call from a friend who works at PCQ. I happened to mention to him about the bugs in FC4 and explained to him that it was a bad choice. Dunno why they still stuck on with FC4 when they had Mandrake, Ubuntu and other wonderful distros to work with. I have started to believe that Mr.Unny takes joy in discrediting the FOSS community and thats why even after the popular opinion that they should go with a distro like Debian / Debian derivatives did they decide to go with FC4.
I am very hurt by the PCQuest's attitude. I thought Krishna Kumar was a reasonable man who would listen to logical reasoning. May be I was wrong.
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
*chop*
You'll probably understand why I left the place for good. Reasoning with PCQ administration & moderators is like reasoning with a brick wall. No use.
Well, it is *their* forum. It is their private property that you are treading on. They have the rights to do whatever they want with your posts.
But, for the effort they have taken in taking something good, and making something bad out of it they need to be dealt with an iron hand.
I feel they have been doing it and getting away with it scott free for a number of years now.
Regards,
ah
On Monday 03 April 2006 02:16, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Well, it is *their* forum. It is their private property that you are treading on. They have the rights to do whatever they want with your posts.
Agreed. But there is a certain amount of professionalism that they must maintain even if its their own forum. Editing someones comment with ALL CAPS, locking threads without reasoning and deleting them just because the moderators "feel" they aren't "interesting" enough to be discussed is....i really dont know what to call it? But this is all besides the point. They can run their forum as they want! Heck they can put a kitchen sink as a moderator for all I care :)
But, for the effort they have taken in taking something good, and making something bad out of it they need to be dealt with an iron hand.
Agreed.
I feel they have been doing it and getting away with it scott free for a number of years now.
Well PCQLinux 2004 wasn't that bad but it was slower, bloated as compared to FC1. It actually fixed bugs than create them. But it's hardware detection was broken. It didn't detect my onboard sound which was quite the norm back then. DRI didn't work. Redhat updater was broken. Come to think about it they claim to have not touched the hardware detection routines yet PCQLinux consistently fails at detecting hardware devices. Why? :|
I switched to FC2 and I still find it the most stable of all Fedora releases. No glitches. No problems. Works like a dream :) and I use it all the time on my desktop :D Have installed PCQLinux 2k4, 2k5 but neither of them met my expectations. 2k6 was an utter disappointment :*(
Regards,
On Monday 03 April 2006 02:16, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Well, it is *their* forum. It is their private property that you are treading on. They have the rights to do whatever they want with your posts.
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4497 Take a look at my thread. It just got locked. A little bit of criticism and it gets locked >_< See what I mean?
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4511 And heres a gem of a thread. It's dear Mr.Yamraj himself. They have actually allowed his comment which has nothing to do with the original thread... The moderator hasn't touched that post but takes undue interest in locking AND commenting on our thread.
I really wish I would've served these ******** a legal notice instead of being civil and warning them on their forum...
Regards,
On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 01:53 +0530, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
reports. He is constantly blaming OSS and how stupid FOSS / Linux / OSS developers are. At one point he was about to say: Linux kernel is st00pid!!!111 But he didn't dare.
I feel it's time that people don't take us lightly.
The best way for the community to strike back, is to hit where it hurts the most. Stop buying PCQ. (read all products / companies not supporting OSS / FOSS / LINUX)
This will be a *small* but important first step.
Next, create awareness of why we do not recommend the company/ product. Perhaps (not sure of the legal issues of this), put up a whitelist and blacklist of companies and products, most important a *peer review* of *WHY* stated Clearly.
People who understand and believe this could maybe "mirror" this list on their own sites/ portals etc. (good when considering visibility)
Recommend against these products.
This list (wiki / portal ?) should categorise, industry wise perhaps stating the reasons why.
Maybe this should not go directly on the LUG site to avoid any unnecessary complications, since there might be luggers who do not agree but perhaps be hosted on subsections of lug members hosting their own websites and linked from ilug ? thoughts?
I'm game.
Think we should adopt the motto: "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".
remember : This will be hard for the newbies just yet, so it upto us who have been around for awhile to take lead. ? any takers? thoughts anyone?
regards Erle
p.s. on the PCQ issue, please do not waste your time. if you really want to try fedora, get a hold of the original FC5 dvd. checked it out, pretty neat. The only think PCQ is doing is taking FC products and adding more bugs/ instability into it owing to the incompetence of their "tech" team.
better still. Wait for ubuntu "dapper drake". you will NOT believe your eyes.
_ see other mail "linux world : sydney" for details on ubuntu, novell desktop, xgl _
-- The human race is a race of cowards; and I am not only marching in that procession but carrying a banner. -- Mark Twain
Erle Pereira wrote:
p.s. on the PCQ issue, please do not waste your time. if you really want to try fedora, get a hold of the original FC5 dvd. checked it out, pretty neat. The only think PCQ is doing is taking FC products and adding more bugs/ instability into it owing to the incompetence of their "tech" team.
We need to watch out for the saboteurs.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
Sometime on Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 01:53:14AM +0530, Dinesh Joshi said:
A VERY IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE. Has PCQuest released the source code for PCQLinux 2006? If not then they have violated the GNU GPL and I think someone should take legal action against them. I am bugged by
They are actually voilating GPL. They are required to publish the sources of all the packages included on their distribution either on CDs or somewhere on the internet.
I remember there was a poll on their forum asking wether PCQLinux should be based on Debian or Fedora. I'm just guessing Debian should have given them far lesser issues, as its a remastering friendly distribution.
Anurag
On 4/1/06, Anurag anurag@gnuer.org wrote:
They are actually voilating GPL. They are required to publish the sources of all the packages included on their distribution either on CDs or somewhere on the internet.
I know. Thats the reason I went ballistic on my blog and sat up until 2AM posting on the LUG's list when I have a ton of other academically important things to do.
I remember there was a poll on their forum asking wether PCQLinux should be based on Debian or Fedora. I'm just guessing Debian should have given them far lesser issues, as its a remastering friendly distribution.
So you were there? Despite the popular opinion they went ahead with Fedora...
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
Sometime on Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 12:20:41PM +0530, Dinesh Joshi said:
I remember there was a poll on their forum asking wether PCQLinux should be based on Debian or Fedora. I'm just guessing Debian should have given them far lesser issues, as its a remastering friendly distribution.
So you were there? Despite the popular opinion they went ahead with Fedora...
I was there for a brief period, but ran away after the gentleman repeatedly claimed Free and OSS software is synonymous with bad documentation and no suport.
And from what you are saying about the gentleman, i've started to believe all this mess could have been done on purpose. After all Microsoft's North India Regional Director was leading the PCQLinux Development team.
Anurag
On Saturday 01 April 2006 10:45, Anurag wrote:
I was there for a brief period, but ran away after the gentleman repeatedly claimed Free and OSS software is synonymous with bad documentation and no suport.
lol. How much of internal documentation do we see of M$ products? I think we all can agree that M$ has a lot of undocumented APIs along with a lot of hacks to get their and many of the 3rd party products playing nice with their kernel. I distinctly remember seeing LOUD comments on the leaked NT source code.
If their "documentation" and development techniques were so perfect then why the bugs? vulnerabilities? loopholes? crashes? I've had Win Server 2k3 crashing on me on countless occasions but not once has Linux locked up or panicked...
And from what you are saying about the gentleman, i've started to believe all this mess could have been done on purpose. After all Microsoft's North India Regional Director was leading the PCQLinux Development team.
Thats right. Thanks for posting his exact designation.
Sometime on Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 05:08:29PM +0000, Dinesh Joshi said:
believe all this mess could have been done on purpose. After all Microsoft's North India Regional Director was leading the PCQLinux Development team.
Thats right. Thanks for posting his exact designation.
there you go! www.microsoft.com/india/rd/
scroll to the bottom.
Anurag
take a look...
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4497 http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=347754
:D
-- Dinesh A. Joshi
On 01/04/06 11:33 +0530, Anurag wrote:
Sometime on Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 01:53:14AM +0530, Dinesh Joshi said:
A VERY IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE. Has PCQuest released the source code for PCQLinux 2006? If not then they have violated the GNU GPL and I think someone should take legal action against them. I am bugged by
They are actually voilating GPL. They are required to publish the sources of all the packages included on their distribution either on CDs or somewhere on the internet.
They are required to provide source to anyone who has their binaries upto a period of three years. Write to them asking for the source along with proof of purchase. The GPL violation will occur IFF they don't provide you with the source.
I remember there was a poll on their forum asking wether PCQLinux should be based on Debian or Fedora. I'm just guessing Debian should have given them far lesser issues, as its a remastering friendly distribution.
More people are familiar with the RH brand name and with RPM. Plus, a better choice than Debian would have been Ubuntu, and frankly, Ubuntu in its current state isn't suited to the Indian market.
Devdas Bhagat
Sometime on Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 11:49:30PM +0530, Devdas Bhagat said:
They are required to provide source to anyone who has their binaries upto a period of three years. Write to them asking for the source along with proof of purchase. The GPL violation will occur IFF they don't provide you with the source.
As i could understand it, the GPL requires that the binary distribution should be accompanied with a *written offer* of source code availability. I am sure there is no such written offer present anywhere right now and there has been a voilation.
More people are familiar with the RH brand name and with RPM. Plus, a better choice than Debian would have been Ubuntu, and frankly, Ubuntu in its current state isn't suited to the Indian market.
Taking it off the topic, i believe the Ubuntu DVD is well suited for indian homes atleast. And one has to remove RH branding anyways if its going to be heavily modified.
I actually dont want to discourage anyone. All effort gone in the making of PCQLinux was done in goodwill. But the fact is my neighbour may get a bad impression of GNU/Linux distributions in general. They trust PCQuest more than me.
Anurag -- __ __ gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n. (recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.
On Saturday 01 April 2006 21:31, Anurag wrote:
As i could understand it, the GPL requires that the binary distribution should be accompanied with a *written offer* of source code availability. I am sure there is no such written offer present anywhere right now and there has been a voilation.
Heres the license agreement of PCQLinux 2k6...
LICENSE AGREEMENT PCQLinux 2006: This agreement governs the download, installation or use of the Software (as defined below) and any updates to the Software, regardless of the delivery mechanism. The Software is a collective work of many authors. Subject to the following terms, The authors grant to the user ("User") a license to this collective work pursuant to the GNU General Public License (latest version available at www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.php). By downloading, installing or using the Software, the User agrees to the terms of this agreement.
1. THE SOFTWARE. PCQLinux 2006 (the "Software") is a modular Linux operating system consisting of hundreds of software components. The end user license agreement for each component is located in the component's source code. The license terms for the components permit the User to copy, modify, and redistribute the component, in both source code and binary code forms. This agreement does not limit User's rights under, or grant User rights that supersede the license terms of any particular component.
2. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. The Software and each of its components, including the source code, documentation, appearance, structure and organization are copyrighted by the respective authors and others and are protected under copyright and other laws. Title to the Software and any component, or to any copy, modification, or merged portion shall remain with the aforementioned, subject to the applicable license. This agreement permits User to distribute unmodified as well as modified copies of the Software. If User modifies the Software, then the modifications will be governed by the terms of the GPL or such other license that governs the individual software component, as the case may be.
3. LIMITED WARRANTY. Except as specifically stated in this agreement or a license for a particular component, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE AND THE COMPONENTS ARE PROVIDED AND LICENSED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, NON-INFRINGEMENT OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Neither PCQuest or Cybermedia warrants that the functions contained in the Software will meet User's requirements or that the operation of the Software will be entirely error free or appear precisely as described in the accompanying documentation. USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS AT USER'S OWN RISK.
4. LIMITATION OF REMEDIES AND LIABILITY. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, CyberMedia or the original authors or those who subsequently modified the software or its components WILL NOT BE LIABLE TO USER FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF CYBERMEDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
5. EXPORT CONTROL. Some of this software has been created in the United States of America and may be subject to US Export controls. As required by U.S. law, User represents and warrants that it: (a) understands that those cmponents of the Software are subject to export controls under the U.S. Commerce Department's Export administration Regulations ("EAR"); (b) is not located in a prohibited destination country under the EAR or U.S. sanctions regulations (currently Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria); (c) will not export, re-export, or transfer the Software to any prohibited destination, entity, or individual without the necessary export license(s) or authorizations(s) from the U.S. Government; (d) will not use or transfer the Software for use in any sensitive nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, or missile technology end-uses unless authorized by the U.S. Government by regulation or specific license; (e) understands and agrees that if it is in the United States and exports or transfers the Software to eligible end users, it will, as required by EAR Section 741.17(e), submit semi-annual reports to the Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry & Security (BIS), which include the name and address (including country) of each transferee; and (f) understands that countries other than the United States may restrict the import, use, or export of encryption products and that it shall be solely responsible for compliance with any such import, use, or export restrictions.
6. GENERAL. If any provision of this agreement is held to be unenforceable, that shall not affect the enforceability of the remaining provisions. This agreement shall be governed by the laws of India, under the jurisdiction of the courts of Delhi, without regard to any conflict of laws or provisions, except that the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods shall not apply.
Copyright (C) 2006 CyberMedia. All rights reserved. "CyberMedia", "PCQuest" "PCQLinux" and "PCQLinux 2006" are trademarks of CyberMedia India Ltd. "Linux" is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
Dinesh, Rony,
As i could understand it, the GPL requires that the binary distribution should be accompanied with a *written offer* of source code availability. I am sure there is no such written offer present anywhere right now and there has been a voilation.
Heh, now let's put an end to this thread. It has been established well that the PCQ people are nothing but a bunch of jokers. They have no feeling for the FOSS community and neither do they know about the way it works. Whenever people have tried working in the cathedral fashion like them, people have failed. What happened to them was just inevitable. I have never used PCQLinux myself, but I have always noticed it to be a lousy hack of Red Hat / FC. Just a few years back, I was reading some Credits or Readme file in the PCQLinux distro ... I found out that they had done a search-and-replace on all email IDs listed in the file. So it became torvalds@pcqlinux.com, davem@pcqlinux.com, cox@pcqlinux.com, and stuff like that. That helped me in understanding their level of expertise and I never looked at a PCQLinux CD again. They are just a bunch of morons. Period. Regards, BG
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Sunday 02 April 2006 07:48, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
Heh, now let's put an end to this thread. It has been established well that the PCQ people are nothing but a bunch of jokers. They have no feeling for the FOSS community and neither do they know about the way it works. Whenever people have tried working in the cathedral fashion like them, people have failed. What happened to them was just inevitable. I have never used PCQLinux myself, but I have always noticed it to be a lousy hack of Red Hat / FC. Just a few years back, I was reading some Credits or Readme file in the PCQLinux distro ... I found out that they had done a search-and-replace on all email IDs listed in the file. So it became torvalds@pcqlinux.com, davem@pcqlinux.com, cox@pcqlinux.com, and stuff like that. That helped me in understanding their level of expertise and I never looked at a PCQLinux CD again. They are just a bunch of morons. Period. Regards, BG
:O :O :O
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
I had an Object Oriented Analysis and Development (OOAD) course in my 7th sem. The stuff Mr. Unny talks about is right out of that - use cases, test cases, flow charts and the grand-daddy - UML. I believed (and still believe) that such obsessive documentation is a coverup for bad software. He is also very infatuated with SDKs. And dis-illusioned with Open Source software mailing lists and developers. We all can vouch for both - there have been many a times that both lists and developers have responded positively to my pleas for help. Maybe he forgot a certain stellar article of how NOT to post to a list or ask a developer and what to do BEFORE asking them.
Mr. Unny should be asked to give details of the bug reports he has filed, if his post has any truth in it.
Also, the PCQLinux team should give up trying to make PCQL mimic the look and feel of other OSs specially, Windows. It seems their issues with Anaconda and the "start menu equivalent" came up because of that. Again, for a custom built (or any other) distro, don't we start with the kernel and then move out? AFAIK, most distros start their specifications with their kernel numbers; so I guess thats the thing distro-builders fix first.
On Saturday 01 April 2006 06:05, Rohit V. Bhute wrote:
I had an Object Oriented Analysis and Development (OOAD) course in my 7th sem. The stuff Mr. Unny talks about is right out of that - use cases, test cases, flow charts and the grand-daddy - UML. I believed (and still believe) that such obsessive documentation is a coverup for bad software. He is also very infatuated with SDKs. And dis-illusioned with Open Source software mailing lists and developers. We all can vouch for both - there have been many a times that both lists and developers have responded positively to my pleas for help. Maybe he forgot a certain stellar article of how NOT to post to a list or ask a developer and what to do BEFORE asking them.
UML is a big joke. I have read Grady Booch, Ali Bahrami's books. I have it this sem in my engineering course. UML is crap. It has redundant info all over the place. Sequence, Collaboration, Class diagram and the biggest joke of them of all - Object diagram. Even Ali Bahrami himself acknowledges that UML is a monster. Something that you really dont want in a software development process. I would really love to see the UML models for M$ WinXP or better yet WinVaporware. Oh crap. Thats right I cant. Because its proprietary...
*chop*
UML is a big joke. I have read Grady Booch, Ali Bahrami's books. I have it this sem in my engineering course. UML is crap.
OK Dinesh. We know you are angry. We also know people at PCQ need to be spanked. But really, UML has nothing to do with this.
Later on, perhaps you'll realize the utility of understanding the big picture without getting into teeny-weeny details of code. This is important, especially if you are working with a largish team. Every has to be on the same plane.
Diagrams can't be misunderstood. That is why you have road signs... The meaning of language and prose on the other hand depends on the reader.
Regards,
ah
On 03/04/06 07:39 +0530, Amol Hatwar wrote:
*chop*
UML is a big joke. I have read Grady Booch, Ali Bahrami's books. I have it this sem in my engineering course. UML is crap.
OK Dinesh. We know you are angry. We also know people at PCQ need to be spanked. But really, UML has nothing to do with this.
UML as a documentation model is a good idea. UML as a coding option is a bad thing.
OTOH, UML is just another fancy flowchart.
Devdas Bhagat
On 4/3/06, Amol Hatwar amol@hatwar.org wrote:
*chop*
UML is a big joke. I have read Grady Booch, Ali Bahrami's books. I have it this sem in my engineering course. UML is crap.
OK Dinesh. We know you are angry. We also know people at PCQ need to be spanked. But really, UML has nothing to do with this.
*snip*
Sorry AH, I probably went overboard with the UML thing :). I understand it's importance. To err is human after all :). I am quite pissed off at the PCQ. They could've gracefully acknowledged their mistake and apologized to the community but instead they(actually Vinod Unny) decides to enter into a flame war. What surprises me is that the editor, Krishna Kumar, hasn't yet commented.
whoever z_linuxman and zaph0d are, many thanks to them. They have gotten my points very well. Something that I personally couldn't have done :)
This is the most offending comment that I've found yet...
And this is where Anindya and me hit a brick wall. And this is also the place where we recognized the actual worth of open source - zero!
Typical microsoftie attitude >:(
Regards, Dinesh.
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
whoever z_linuxman and zaph0d are, many thanks to them. They have gotten my points very well.
Here are the final pearls of wisdom from Mr. Unny before locking the topic.
"My dear Z_Linux, I've made it clear that we have contacted the developers of each and every piece of software that we tried to figure but couldn't. We've trawled the bug lists, put messages on the respective mailing lists, direct mailed the developers asking for help - not just this year, but in all the years previously. We have never made this public other than this year. There is no "bug report" filed ''cause these are not "bugs". These are simply bad coding practices that dont lead to a bug - but do lead to inability to use the (open) source for anyting useful. At least if there were docuementation or architecture, there really is something we could fgure out as developers. Withouht that its like getting lost in a jungle without a light."
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35602 The last message.
He is heading a linux team for some years, even giving lectures on it but is not able to use Open Source for anything useful. LOL !
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
They are not only spoiling GNU/Linux's reputation but also blaming the bugs on everyone except themselves. They have NOT made any attempt to contribute back to the community by filing bug reports. He is constantly blaming OSS and how stupid FOSS / Linux / OSS developers are. At one point he was about to say: Linux kernel is st00pid!!!111 But he didn't dare.
I feel it's time that people don't take us lightly.
Agreed !!
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Thursday 30 March 2006 06:24, Rony Bill wrote:
Why are they turning the clock back instead of moving forward.
Check out these interesting threads :)
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4414 http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4448 http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4258
Do you think PCQLinux is bringing negative publicity for them?
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Check out these interesting threads :)
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4414 http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4448 http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4258
Do you think PCQLinux is bringing negative publicity for them?
I don't mind their -ve publicity. The problem is that they are playing with a good OS and giving a crap version of it to the public who may get permanently shifted to commercial OSes. This may also drive away hardware driver writers away from linux and ultimately it will be looked upon as just an experiment rather than a serious OS.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 14:56 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
I don't mind their -ve publicity. T.he problem is that they are playing with a good OS and giving a crap version of it to the public who may get permanently shifted to commercial OSes. This may also drive away hardware driver writers away from linux and ultimately it will be looked upon as just an experiment rather than a serious OS.
Well Said Rony. You might just have hit the real reason for distributing bad cds with a crappy release. I would'nt be surprised if word came out that it was done deliberately.... a few bad seeds playing spoilt sport and giving everyone a bad name.
regards Erle
On Saturday 01 April 2006 11:58, Erle Pereira wrote:
Well Said Rony. You might just have hit the real reason for distributing bad cds with a crappy release. I would'nt be surprised if word came out that it was done deliberately.... a few bad seeds playing spoilt sport and giving everyone a bad name.
It's important to note that PCQuest is not the only one which distributes corrupted Linux CDs. Linux4U has also been known for distributing bad CDs.
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
It's important to note that PCQuest is not the only one which distributes corrupted Linux CDs. Linux4U has also been known for distributing bad CDs.
Is there any test or certification that can be added to an OSS in order to seperate the good bad and the ugly?
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Sunday 02 April 2006 1:52 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Is there any test or certification that can be added to an OSS in order to seperate the good bad and the ugly?
Unfortunately no testing standard exists. Also good, bad or ugly are very subjective. But the DOD USA has a certification process. And M$ NT4 passes some sort of security tests which qualifies it for use in the military !!. No wonder they wind up shooting civilians ad nauseum. RH and Suse (afair) also qualify. On a side note RAF was about to drop purchase of US planes worth several billion cause the source code was not available.
Erle Pereira wrote:
I would'nt be surprised if word came out that it was done deliberately.... a few bad seeds playing spoilt sport and giving everyone a bad name.
Imagine, a Microsoft Regional Director packaging and promoting Linux.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
On 4/2/06, Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Imagine, a Microsoft Regional Director packaging and promoting Linux.
They must be trying to port BSOD to linux but unsuccessfully since they do not have much expertise.
On 4/2/06, Rony Bill ronbillypop@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Erle Pereira wrote:
I would'nt be surprised if word came out that it was done deliberately.... a few bad seeds playing spoilt sport and giving everyone a bad name.
Imagine, a Microsoft Regional Director packaging and promoting Linux.
Ok...getting back on topic. I have gotten a reply from Mr.Unny. Notice how the justification never goes away. It's so much so that another member of a forum decides to correct him @ pcqforums...
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35561 http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348164
And the bad mouthing never goes away :*(
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Dinesh,
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35561 http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348164
And the bad mouthing never goes away :*(
Now the turn of the FOSS Community to do the bad mouthing -- http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35602#35602
Regards, BG
- -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose@ubuntu.com Ubuntu -- Linux for Human Beings http://www.ubuntu.com/
1024D/86361B74 BB2C E244 15AD 05C5 523A 90E7 4249 3494 8636 1B74
On 4/2/06, Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose@ubuntu.com wrote:
Dinesh,
http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35561 http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348164
And the bad mouthing never goes away :*(
Now the turn of the FOSS Community to do the bad mouthing -- http://forums.pcquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35602#35602
lol who ever that was gave a nice bashing :)
-- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi
-
Amol Hatwar -
Ananth A -
Anurag -
Arun K. Khan -
Baishampayan Ghose -
Baishampayan Ghose -
Devdas Bhagat -
Dinesh Joshi -
Erle Pereira -
Faraz Shahbazker -
JTD -
mehul -
Philip Tellis -
Rohit V. Bhute -
Rony Bill -
Tux user