Linuxers July 2002

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

100 participants
233 discussions

Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] The groupware is finally up
by Amol Hatwar 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote : >Actually, I am facing the same problem. >I have a lot of domain expertise in Accounts, Costing and >commercial >applications >I also have adequate expertise in software development under >windows >platform. Saswata having dev experience in some *any* platform helps. And you should concentrate on leveraging your strengths rather than weaknesses. >But in Linux, I am too, like Suhit, a newbie. >What do we have to do when we become a "mentor" for a project ? >How is this >thing actually going to work ? I don't think you need anything else except domain expertise :) > >I want to be a part of the project, but am more worried about >messing things >up for others. Ha ha ... your worries are probably justified, but everyone learns on the go. As long as everyone learns *you'll learn programming Linux, the programmer will learn about your domain*, things will be fine. Regards, -ah.

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Does not allow login even with Su on Redhat 6.2 box
by Jaishankar Krishnan Iyer 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

Hi Guys, I had one of my Redhat linux 6.2 box which was configured with live ip address. For experimental purpose, we did disable all services like ftp/telnet/finger etc with host.allow and host.deny allowing only one machine from our internal network to access this using ssh. The only service which was enabled was http on the external interface.There is no other services like ftp/lpd/nfs/ running on it. All the users/groups like games/shutdown/operator etc have been deleted. We have changed the permission using chattr for inet/ init conf files too. The box did NOT run any firewall etc. The next day what we found was, it would NOT allow us to login at all. At the login prompt , when one tried to login as any user or even "su" it would just jump back to login prompt. We rebooted the machine with single user mode and found that no passwd /shadow files were tampered with. Could i get some hint as to which are the likely files which i could look into which could cause this problem. This would help us further in the penetration test which we are conducting. Thanks and Regards Jaishankar

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] The groupware is finally up
by Suhit Kelkar 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

Hi, I would like to help in the project. However, I do not know how to program. How can I assist? I am a freelance journalist and linux newbie. Suhit Kelkar -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Debian Woody CDs
by abhijeet 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

Hi, Does Somebody on the list know a good place to get debian woody cds?? Can somebody lend me the same, or can I have them written from somewhere? thx abhijeet

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difference betwn route and ip route
by Hiten Desai 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

Hi!, I am confused between route and ip route which one should be used in which case and whts the difference between both of them please help Hiten. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com

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lan wan routing
by Hiten Desai 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

Hi! I have routing problem between lan > wan wan > lan I have terminated vsat connection on a secondary lan card of linux I am able to ping remote gateways by ipchains but remote pcs are not able to ping local machines is there any thing like routing other than route command (as such ipchains would be NAT) how about routing like routers in linux if it is possible what are the commands for doing it ???? other than "ipchains" and "route" Please Help. Thanks, Hiten. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com

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Re[2]: [ILUG-BOM] RH Linux not overwriting MBR.
by Vinay Pai 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

> Well, it also depends on which version of Windows you're using. > If you're using something like ME or XP then, the Windows OS protects the MBR > somehow. So, any other software which tries to access / overwrite MBR will > fail. How can a system that isn't even running prevent anything? I thought The best (or worst) it could do is the restore the MBR to its old state AFTER you start windows. So at the very least you should get the lilo prompt at least once. Some BIOSes do protect the MBR, though... but they usually throw up a dialog box and besides they wouldn't have an effect on Linux which accesses the hardware directly, thereby cutting the BIOS out of the picture. > 2. If you have NT Boot Loader (if using XP), then create an image file of the > boot sector using dd. Copy this file to some windows partition. Edit your A simpler way, if your NT/2k/XP boot partition (the partition with NTLDR.EXE) is installed is FAT is to create a dummy 512-byte file (using dd) and add it to the boot.ini as you described. Then set the 'boot' parameter in Lilo as the name of the file... eg. boot = /mnt/winc/lilo.bin Then so long as you have your windows partition mounted rw you can just use lilo as you always do.

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Re:RH Linux not overwriting MBR
by Rohit Ramesh 19 Jul '02

19 Jul '02

> It goes through the entire installation process, and asks me to > reboot. But then directly boots into Windows. Tried Lilo & Grub. I > explicitly asked to overwrite MBR during installation. Check to see if your motherboard supports booting into Linux beyond the 1024 cylinder limit. Regards, Rohit. ________________________________________________ Rohit Ramesh mca @ vjti rohit(a)vjtimca.net ________________________________________________ Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse.

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Re: Compiling linuxthreads for glibc
by Satya 19 Jul '02

19 Jul '02

Okay, I did a make install on glibc-2.2.5, and pine still works. How do I know that the new glibc is being used, or will be used by newly compiled programs, and stuff? [much rebooting and fscking] I spoke too soon. Running ldconfig killed everything. I can't even get into the system in single user mode. And it looks like 2.2.5 isn't even installed. I forked /usr and / before doing all these upgrades. The only difference in /lib/libc* and /usr/lib/libc* between the old and new systems seems to be the timestamps. Filenames and filesizes are identical. Anyone want to shed some light on this? -- Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/> We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.

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FEATURE: The promise of an operating system...
by Frederick Noronha 19 Jul '02

19 Jul '02

************************************************************************** NEVY OS -- THE PROMISE OF AN OPERATING SYSTEM: LINUX KERNEL PLUS WIMP Or, why working on hardware is a hard job in India -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BRIEfnCOUNTERS: BY FREDERICK NORONHA fred at bytesforall dot org ************************************************************************** We were leaving Bangalore by the sleeper-bus (yes, Goa has this strange mode of long-distance transport) when someone can rushing in to meet me. It was twentish-something Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)mac.com>, with a small hardware device in hand. That was the best part of a year ago. We were supposed to talk to each other via e-mail. But that never happened; mostly due to this writer's fault. Each time we exchanged mail, one ended up feeling that there were still more inputs needed before the 'story' could get done. Maybe because the story itself was a rather difficult one to comprehend. Putting Kathe in touch with a journo friend in Mumbai didn't quite work out. Fighting the odds in the hardware and software world, Kathe was obviously getting increasingly irritated with having to struggle to get a hearing from the media. Writing on software which is easy to describe or understand despite the distance is one thing. Hardware and operating systems prove to be an uphill task -- specially if you're the kind of a writer who background is journalism, rather than hard-core technology. How much of an innovation is this innovation? Is it an approach that makes sense? We're still not sure... So what better than let Kathe describe his work in his own words... We invite readers' reactions to Kathe's ideas, expressed in the form of a Q&A that he sent in recently: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is Nevy OS? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevy OS is a new name of the 'Indy' operating system, the first operating system from Tisya Microsystems Pvt. Ltd., and probably the first Operating System from the Indian sub-continent. Nevy OS is being created and constantly improved to work for the upcoming computing device from Tisya, called 'Nevy'. Nevy could be a computing device which will break away from most traditional theories, and twist certain beliefs to create the real people's computer. At this point, we would prefer not to talk about Nevy, because we want to maintain an element of surprise. But, just to keep you interested, let us tell you that it's going to be a portable *not a hand-held* and will be the culmination of over four years of research and development. Nevy OS is being built on the Linux kernel with a state of the art graphical environment which is zippy yet featureful. It is based on the 'WIMP' (Windows Icons Menus Pointers) paradigm that originated at Xerox and best implemented by Apple Computers and most abused by Microsoft ;^) Nevy in its current release has a menuing system; web browser jotpad; application game of snake network configurator. This is a Preview Release 1. It is being done to let people get a feel of what is coming their way. We will be releasing updated, improvised and application rich PRs regularly. Please keep your browsers tuned in to http://www.tisya.co.in/downloads/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is it called Nevy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Nevy' and the 'Nevy OS' get their names as a tribute to the person who has touched my heart. That person was the prime cause for bringing me out of the dumps, for making me fight back and infuse a renewed sense of purpose in life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is it not called 'Indy' anymore? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Because an awesome company (SGI) in Silicon Valley makes computers by the same name. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who were the people involved in the project directly/indirectly? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lots of them... But primarily, the most important people were: besides myself as the driving force and investor behind the idea, Erle Pereira, who has been one of the closest buddies and persons to support me the longest. He's also the one to be in a constant state of confusion, because of the various strategies laid out and executed by that terrible guy called Mayuresh. There's Amit Kucheria, one of the most amazing and enthusiastic brains, who have been providing constant moral support from afar (as far away as the US of A). Alan Kay, though he hasn't supported directly, but has always been the kind of person who would suddenly appear out of nowhere and tell you things which would make certain pieces of the big puzzle fit in. Mr. Jef Raskin again though not a direct supporter has been a constant guide and the force to make me think out of the box. (He also manages to give a kick on the #$%^ to wake you out of the dream world) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- When did it start, where and how? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- It started sometime around the year 1997-98 when I was getting bored of all the routine development work as part of his duties at Larsen & Toubro, Mumbai. I wanted something more challenging, something which would allow me to tap into my latent potential and do something significant. I was doing quite some amount of research on easy to deploy network solutions for data exchange, also some research on handwriting recognition, add to that my inner desire to build systems which would be so easy to use that they were almost intuitive. I was also disgruntled with the fact that Windows was spreading around faster than a virus. It became obvious that the path Windows was taking would demand an upgrade to hardware almost every year. That would mean the prices of hardware almost never going down, only the power offered would be a lot more for that same cost. That was a situation not conducive to bringing computing to the general masses (that idea of bringing computing to the masses arose out of the fact that I couldn't afford a computer till I had started working) I wanted the upcoming generation to grow up with computers, be as at ease with them as my generation was with VCRs. But, I also wanted to them to be technologically sound and work in an environment which would let them focus on their job (invisibility of technology). So one fine morning, during the bus ride to my office I popped up a question to start a brain storming session with my friend Rajeev Warrier (now at PW-C). The idea was to build an information appliance which would be hooked on to vast network of data (based on the Internet, but running parallel to the WWW) allowing the user access to information at the touch of a button. The appliance would have to be small, rugged, affordable and simple to use. (Personally, I wanted to base it on the LCARS system aboard the Star Trek Enterprise in the Next Generation series.) We figured, we would need a minimalistic OS, its sole data would be to start the hardware, get on the Internet and send queries and receive and display data. To avoid problems we wanted to eliminate the concept of a floppy disk drive or a CD drive (for that we thought we would make an OS which would be non-failing). And to keep costs low, we wanted to use the television as output, and provide a keyboard with built-in pointer controller (our terminology for mouse/trackball/ peticular switch) with a long cable (wireless would be too expensive). The biggest impediment would be the network. I envisaged a network based on the standard LAN (the benefit of having worked in a corporate environment) theme, only, we would call it SN (Society Network). This network would have to be the death bell of the irritating cable television network, since I wanted to provide 'Video on Demand'. We (Rajeev and me) would discuss it in detail every morning, sometimes during lunch, in the evening bus ride. We came up with an idea of creating separate smart disks which would be plug and play to the appliance hence providing external storage space (if required). Our biggest impediment was cost, the hardware cost just would go down (especially due to the TV output interface). That problem got solved one morning when I read an article in 'PC Quest' about a new MediaGX-based motherboard, created by a company in Bangalore 'Bharati Electronics'. We were euphoric. It infused a new life to our brain-storming sessions. I went ballistic, somehow, it seemed -- the force was with us -- that things were going our way, I met up with a guy at one of my regular Linux Users meets. He was a hardware assembler. I talked about the motherboard, he said he had heard about it. I talked him into lending me one of those boards. I told him, "If this succeeds, you get a cut and you will be rolling in money. If it fails, what's there to lose? You just assemble a PC with the board and sell it off." He agreed, he contacted the BE (Bharati Electronics) office in Bombay, got hold of a board and put the whole thing in an old casing and gave it to me. I toyed around with it for a couple of weeks, showed him a demo (which was pathetic). He was not happy, and started pushing to give back the system. In the meanwhile, I had been talking with an old colleague of mine -- Deepak Sharma, who had left L&T -- about my ideas. He was working for Fore Systems which got bought out by Marconi Telecom, UK and I figured I would need his help to execute my idea of establishing SNs. He talked to me at length about my concepts, and said it was a workable idea. We had discussed it for long, and I even showed him a demo. When the assembler pressurized me too much, I had to return the machine, but that wasn't before I had taken a trip to Bangalore and shown a demo to a company, via Deepak's contacts. The company offered me a job to bring that concept to reality. I jumped as I had already got frustrated with all the ridicule at L&T. Perhaps people out there just couldn't get it, being too closed minded. I reached Bangalore, and after that things happened in a sort of fast forward. What I had imagined the company to be -- based on Deepak's information -- was not what it really was. The company was dying, and I was supposed to be their saviour. Add to that I had to do it without any support (neither people to work with, nor sufficient equipment). I worked long and hard, worked nights at end, but things were proceeding too slow, with only me working on both, the hardware specification and software development. I fell ill with Typhoid, almost scrapped death, and had to come back to Bombay for treatment. In the meanwhile, I was made into a scapegoat for the failures of that company. The company got shutdown. Luckily I escaped with the bare minimum of injuries. Back in Bombay, broken physically and emotionally, I moved around aimlessly for quite some time, till one fine day I sat and thought things out. I figured, 'I am young, haven't got much to lose and that I giving it one more shot would be the best alternative.' I started afresh, dug up old contacts, built new, spoke with a couple of developers -- Erle was one of them -- and asked around for funds. No one was investing. One of my associates had heard about my plight. He also knew that I toying around with the idea about introducing a StrongARM (processor)-based computing device. One of his business contacts had one StrongARM evaluation board which he could not use. He got us both together. The owner of the board suggested that I collaborate with his company to develop a set-top-box for his markets in the Far East. It was the turning point, though due to my inexperience I faced a lot of hardships. Though after a prolonged skirmish (and a pending case against them) the collaboration fell through, I managed to salvage around Rs 450,000 (under $10,000) from the deal as fees towards consultation and miscellaneous expenses. Using that as capital, I took a trip to Taiwan, got oriented with the workings of the place -- very amusing, those guys work with hardware like we work with software, quick.... Built a dependable base in four working days, and a prototype, came back... That was the period of the 'crash of twin towers', the market had collapsed along with them. This was the time when I figured it would be better to start improving the Operating System and develop a contact base in India. We worked on Nevy OS (then called Indy). I moved all around the place (including Bangalore, where I met a person called Fred) and showed him one of our prototypes. We did an _alpha_ release on Jan 26, 2002, and approximately 6 months from then we have now down a preview release... A Poem attributed to the people at Tisya: Here's to the crazy ones... The Misfits, The Rebels, The Troublemakers, The Round pegs in the Square Holes, The Ones who see things Differently, They're not fond of rules and have no respect for the status quo, You can quote them, Disagree with them, Glorify or Vilify them, About the only thing you can't do is ignore them, Because they change things, They push the human race forward, And while some may see them as the crazy ones, We see genius, Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, Are the ones who do

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Linuxers July 2002