Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
The benefits to him are partly ideological and partly practical. Benefits to the GNUKhata include real-world analysis of competence and generation of ideas.
Do let me know what you think.
Here's wishing 2010 is the year of the ox and the penguin.
Regards
Suhit Kelkar
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Suhit Kelkar suhitkelkar@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
The benefits to him are partly ideological and partly practical. Benefits to the GNUKhata include real-world analysis of competence and generation of ideas.
Do let me know what you think.
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
On Fri, 2010-01-01 at 22:33 +0530, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Suhit Kelkar suhitkelkar@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
The benefits to him are partly ideological and partly practical. Benefits to the GNUKhata include real-world analysis of competence and generation of ideas.
Do let me know what you think.
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
I think a google for gnukhata would provide the lists for both users and developers.
any ways plese mail me off list so that we can discuss this further.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/1/2010 10:33 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Suhit Kelkarsuhitkelkar@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
The benefits to him are partly ideological and partly practical. Benefits to the GNUKhata include real-world analysis of competence and generation of ideas.
Do let me know what you think.
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can not or should not post here his intention to help, either by himself or through someone else. He has not said he will post the feedback here to this list.
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet. And get a life.
Regards Saswata
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
I think Siddhesh is right, he has pointed to right list where testing from user's pov can be better explained by Krishnakant and other developers rather than making such discussion here.
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can not or should not post here his intention to help, either by himself or through someone else. He has not said he will post the feedback here to this list.
Many project's developers are here but they never talk/discuss apart from general discussion.
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet. And get a life.
This was unneeded. He has life already! :P
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users.
Saswata, I know many general users who know and use GNU/Linux. They don't find the need for accounting software yet. Accounting software makes GNU/Linux acceptable to general users is a wrong premise. Thoroughbred CAs like yourself won't jump till the package has a fan-following. Accountants != General users
And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
I think Siddhesh is right, he has pointed to right list where testing from user's pov can be better explained by Krishnakant and other developers rather than making such discussion here.
Kartik and Siddhesh are right. We don't discuss kernel code, PHP or the nuances of accounting principles here.
Cheers,
Amol Hatwar
On 1/2/2010 1:03 PM, Amol Hatwar wrote:
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users.
Saswata, I know many general users who know and use GNU/Linux. They don't find the need for accounting software yet. Accounting software makes GNU/Linux acceptable to general users is a wrong premise. Thoroughbred CAs like yourself won't jump till the package has a fan-following. Accountants != General users
Amol Please see the list archives, you will find the need for accounting software to make the platform acceptable has been raised repeatedly. and i did not see counter points saying its not so. CAs (like myself ??) will wait for a package to be worth using, stable and able to deliver rather than a fan following. the offer to have it tested and refined is probably a move in the right direction.
regards saswata
On Jan 2, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 1:03 PM, Amol Hatwar wrote:
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users.
Saswata, I know many general users who know and use GNU/Linux. They don't find the need for accounting software yet. Accounting software makes GNU/Linux acceptable to general users is a wrong premise. Thoroughbred CAs like yourself won't jump till the package has a fan-following. Accountants != General users
Amol Please see the list archives, you will find the need for accounting software to make the platform acceptable has been raised repeatedly. and i did not see counter points saying its not so.
Strange. I've yet to see "General Users" using Tally, QuickBooks and what have you on Windows. I agree the platform sees increased usage; but please attribute it to Accountants rather than "General Users". Archived consensus might not always be the right one...
CAs (like myself ??) will wait for a package to be worth using, stable and able to deliver rather than a fan following. the offer to have it tested and refined is probably a move in the right direction.
Great! Which means, it will require discussing accounting principles, what the software does and doesn't do and all the myriad thingamajigs from architecture to programming style. Separate list I say!
Cheers,
Amol Hatwar
On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Strange. I've yet to see "General Users" using Tally, QuickBooks and what have you on Windows. I agree the platform sees increased usage; but please attribute it to Accountants rather than "General Users". Archived consensus might not always be the right one...
Now, looks like we will have to go deeper into meaningless discussion on what a general users is. From what i know, the largest pool of general users work on Office Productivity Suites (like ms office) And the next largest pool is probably on accounting related functions (tally, inventory, erp, hr) We already have Open Office for the office productivity users. But few SME offices will allow its systems to be moved to linux unless there is a good accounting software available for them to use.
CAs (like myself ??) will wait for a package to be worth using, stable and able to deliver rather than a fan following. the offer to have it tested and refined is probably a move in the right direction.
Great! Which means, it will require discussing accounting principles, what the software does and doesn't do and all the myriad thingamajigs from architecture to programming style. Separate list I say!
I do not know why you insist on looking at it the wrong way. He HAS NOT offered to report the testing on the ILUG group. He has only initiated the matter by making the offer to do it on ILUG, since he knows the lead developer is here on the list And perhaps with a completely misguided hope that his efforts will be appreciated (heaven forbid that happening !!!)
to tell him to join the GNUKhata mailing list to be able to make that offer, IMO is uncalled for, if not stupid. Note that the lead developer immediately took up the offer and asked to be contacted offline. Again the right move.
In the normal scheme of things, i would have been bored of this conversation by now and not bothered to reply, but its important that we understand that you cant keep telling people not to bring to a linux user group discussion what is definitely a connected matter. Cause i am beginning to wonder what i am still doing on the list
Cheers,
Amol Hatwar
On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 16:21 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Strange. I've yet to see "General Users" using Tally, QuickBooks and what have you on Windows. I agree the platform sees increased usage; but please attribute it to Accountants rather than "General Users". Archived consensus might not always be the right one...
Now, looks like we will have to go deeper into meaningless discussion on what a general users is. From what i know, the largest pool of general users work on Office Productivity Suites (like ms office) And the next largest pool is probably on accounting related functions (tally, inventory, erp, hr)
Yes that's right because office productivity takes a lot of stress and needs what we call in hindi as "gadha majuri ". May be to a great extent that does not apply to accountants, but after they gather some experience and are doing lot of work, even that tends to become mechanical. So such kind of users are the largest consumers of personal computers, at least one of the largest group.
We already have Open Office for the office productivity users. But few SME offices will allow its systems to be moved to linux unless there is a good accounting software available for them to use.
CAs (like myself ??) will wait for a package to be worth using, stable and able to deliver rather than a fan following. the offer to have it tested and refined is probably a move in the right direction.
Great! Which means, it will require discussing accounting principles, what the software does and doesn't do and all the myriad thingamajigs from architecture to programming style. Separate list I say!
While many would not mind discussions about GNUKhata on this mailing list, there will be others who will say that this is a general purpose mailing list which for many is like a "cook book " for getting their problems solved. Discussions and problem solving is highly focused so many might not like this mailing list to have long threads on only one software or subject. While I don't mind the discussions happning here (I can forward this to the gnukhata devel and users mailing list any ways ). But since there is a dedicated mailing list for the same, it will not be a bad idea to stay away from the flame war which people might have to face.
I do not know why you insist on looking at it the wrong way. He HAS NOT offered to report the testing on the ILUG group. He has only initiated the matter by making the offer to do it on ILUG, since he knows the lead developer is here on the list
Right and I as the lead developer wouldn't mind feedback (good or bad ) coming from anywhere. Just that I wish even those who are not on this mailing list due to reasons best known to them get to hear all the feedback and also interract. We are seriously concerned about the state of FOSS as far as finance and accounting is concernd and we do take good feedback as seriously as the criticisms.
So if some one from the lug offers to test, it will be great. The only point is that we like to archive all this seperately and hence the dedicated mailing list.
And perhaps with a completely misguided hope that his efforts will be appreciated (heaven forbid that happening !!!) No, I think at least I highly appreciate the initiative :)
to tell him to join the GNUKhata mailing list to be able to make that offer, IMO is uncalled for, if not stupid.
I beg to partially disagree. While it is a good thing that the topic came up on lug, but GNUKhata mailing list has got more people focused on the project and most users and developers always hang around that mailing list.
Note that the lead developer immediately took up the offer and asked to be contacted offline. Again the right move.
Because I thought letting the thread go on endlessly on the list might call for flames because not all are interested in the discussion, while mailing me off the list or joining the mailing list would always get the only interested people to read the mail because that is what the members of that mailing list are interested in.
In the normal scheme of things, i would have been bored of this conversation by now and not bothered to reply, but its important that we understand that you cant keep telling people not to bring to a linux user group discussion what is definitely a connected matter. Cause i am beginning to wonder what i am still doing on the list
:) I was inactive for quite some time on this list myself.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Saturday 02 January 2010 20:02:57 Krishnakant wrote:
On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 16:21 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates
wrote:
But since there is a dedicated mailing list for the same, it will not be a bad idea to stay away from the flame war which people might have to face.
Flames turn iron to steel ;-). Dont never mind the flames.
On 1/2/2010 8:02 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 16:21 +0530, Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Strange. I've yet to see "General Users" using Tally, QuickBooks and what have you on Windows. I agree the platform sees increased usage; but please attribute it to Accountants rather than "General Users". Archived consensus might not always be the right one...
Now, looks like we will have to go deeper into meaningless discussion on what a general users is. From what i know, the largest pool of general users work on Office Productivity Suites (like ms office) And the next largest pool is probably on accounting related functions (tally, inventory, erp, hr)
Yes that's right because office productivity takes a lot of stress and needs what we call in hindi as "gadha majuri ". May be to a great extent that does not apply to accountants, but after they gather some experience and are doing lot of work, even that tends to become mechanical. So such kind of users are the largest consumers of personal computers, at least one of the largest group.
So, do you think "General Users" are not interested in accounting software ? Or do you think that the user base of linux will grow in India, among the SME where it really matters without an accounting software ?
While many would not mind discussions about GNUKhata on this mailing list, there will be others who will say that this is a general purpose mailing list which for many is like a "cook book " for getting their problems solved. Discussions and problem solving is highly focused so many might not like this mailing list to have long threads on only one software or subject. While I don't mind the discussions happning here (I can forward this to the gnukhata devel and users mailing list any ways ). But since there is a dedicated mailing list for the same, it will not be a bad idea to stay away from the flame war which people might have to face.
My point is and stays the same. The OP made his intention known on the list, so you can take it up. If people on this list are interested only in flaming, then i have a serious doubt if he will do again. And we will lose an important resource in future.
Or perhaps this list does not really care, as they can go on going round in circles on other matters.
I do not know why you insist on looking at it the wrong way. He HAS NOT offered to report the testing on the ILUG group. He has only initiated the matter by making the offer to do it on ILUG, since he knows the lead developer is here on the list
Right and I as the lead developer wouldn't mind feedback (good or bad ) coming from anywhere. Just that I wish even those who are not on this mailing list due to reasons best known to them get to hear all the feedback and also interract. We are seriously concerned about the state of FOSS as far as finance and accounting is concernd and we do take good feedback as seriously as the criticisms.
So if some one from the lug offers to test, it will be great. The only point is that we like to archive all this seperately and hence the dedicated mailing list.
Sir, if he is going to move ahead, either he will be talking directly to you for all his issues (which he will do being a CA and not interested in your mailing list) Or he is going to joing the mailing list. He is NOT going to join the list only to contact you to say he would like to try the software.
And perhaps with a completely misguided hope that his efforts will be appreciated (heaven forbid that happening !!!) No, I think at least I highly appreciate the initiative :)
to tell him to join the GNUKhata mailing list to be able to make that offer, IMO is uncalled for, if not stupid.
I beg to partially disagree. While it is a good thing that the topic came up on lug, but GNUKhata mailing list has got more people focused on the project and most users and developers always hang around that mailing list.
Note that the lead developer immediately took up the offer and asked to be contacted offline. Again the right move.
Because I thought letting the thread go on endlessly on the list might call for flames because not all are interested in the discussion, while mailing me off the list or joining the mailing list would always get the only interested people to read the mail because that is what the members of that mailing list are interested in.
In the normal scheme of things, i would have been bored of this conversation by now and not bothered to reply, but its important that we understand that you cant keep telling people not to bring to a linux user group discussion what is definitely a connected matter. Cause i am beginning to wonder what i am still doing on the list
:) I was inactive for quite some time on this list myself.
Glad you are active again I am seriously considering that this list is of no use to me
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
2010/1/3 Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com
I am seriously considering that this list is of no use to me
This list does improve your debating skills. Also, for CAT aspirants it can help in reading comprehension practice. I am wondering why I am on this list since I am interested in neither of the 2 above. Infact I realise that I am on this list because of the originator of this thread. Perhaps I can someday help out people like him.
On 1/3/2010 1:06 AM, Debayan Banerjee wrote:
2010/1/3 Saswata Banerjee& Associatesscrapo@saswatabanerjee.com
I am seriously considering that this list is of no use to me
This list does improve your debating skills. Also, for CAT aspirants it can help in reading comprehension practice. I am wondering why I am on this list since I am interested in neither of the 2 above. Infact I realise that I am on this list because of the originator of this thread. Perhaps I can someday help out people like him.
Debayanji, Thank you for putting things in perspective. I stay on the list for similar things - that perhaps some day someone will do or say something worthwhile and people like Rony who give me a practical view of whats happening.
regards saswata
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
I stay on the list for similar things - that perhaps some day someone will do or say something worthwhile and people like Rony who give me a practical view of whats happening.
Don't be so modest :-) You have the most practical view of what's happening as you are already into the corporate scene in an international way.
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 8:02 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
So if some one from the lug offers to test, it will be great. The only point is that we like to archive all this seperately and hence the dedicated mailing list.
Sir, if he is going to move ahead, either he will be talking directly to you for all his issues (which he will do being a CA and not interested in your mailing list) Or he is going to joing the mailing list. He is NOT going to join the list only to contact you to say he would like to try the software.
We need a compromise situation here where all needs are met with minimum friction. For basic discussions on a particular development package, we use this list and for advanced level discussions we use the dedicated list as the rest of the guys working on that package are there. They are not reading this list's mails. The New Year 2010 began well and woke up so many silent members to post on this list. Lets keep up the momentum and enjoy using and promoting FOSS.
On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 12:30 +0530, Rony wrote:
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 8:02 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
So if some one from the lug offers to test, it will be great. The only point is that we like to archive all this seperately and hence the dedicated mailing list.
Sir, if he is going to move ahead, either he will be talking directly to you for all his issues (which he will do being a CA and not interested in your mailing list) Or he is going to joing the mailing list. He is NOT going to join the list only to contact you to say he would like to try the software.
We need a compromise situation here where all needs are met with minimum friction. For basic discussions on a particular development package, we use this list and for advanced level discussions we use the dedicated list as the rest of the guys working on that package are there. They are not reading this list's mails. The New Year 2010 began well and woke up so many silent members to post on this list. Lets keep up the momentum and enjoy using and promoting FOSS.
And keep away from flaming.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Saturday 02 January 2010 13:03:23 Amol Hatwar wrote:
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates
scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users.
Saswata, I know many general users who know and use GNU/Linux. They don't find the need for accounting software yet. Accounting software makes GNU/Linux acceptable to general users is a wrong premise. Thoroughbred CAs like yourself won't jump till the package has a fan-following. Accountants != General users
And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
I think Siddhesh is right, he has pointed to right list where testing from user's pov can be better explained by Krishnakant and other developers rather than making such discussion here.
Kartik and Siddhesh are right. We don't discuss kernel code, PHP or the nuances of accounting principles here.
We arent discussing accounting principles. However if we do discuss accounting principles in relation to FLOSS and in this case to a FLOSS accounting package, i dont see any deadly sin being committed.
While pointing out a user list is helpful and i am sure users will eventually subscribe to the list, i dont see why Suhit should be subscribed to make his offer.
On 1/2/2010 12:50 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
I think Siddhesh is right, he has pointed to right list where testing from user's pov can be better explained by Krishnakant and other developers rather than making such discussion here.
No sir, this is the best place to initiate the matter and make a statement of intention. Krishnakant has also done the right thing by replying on the list and taking things offline from there. If all things are done offline, and nothing is on the list, no one will know that some progress is being made. Which i hope is not what you all want. Visibility of progress and offers for help in that line is important if you want FLOSS projects to gain momentum.
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can not or should not post here his intention to help, either by himself or through someone else. He has not said he will post the feedback here to this list.
Many project's developers are here but they never talk/discuss apart from general discussion.
And I think the offer to get the project tested in real life situation is also as general things can be. So again, i do not see why it should not be posted on the list (ofcourse as a starting point or contact point).
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet. And get a life.
This was unneeded. He has life already! :P
Perhaps, and i should appologise for that, but i am tired of seeing flames where there is no need for it.
Regards Saswata
On Saturday 02 Jan 2010 12:39:40 pm Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list.
lot of people offer to test software - the very fact that a person is offering and expecting some one to take him up on the offer shows he is not serious. Anyone even vaguely serious would go to the website, look at the software, download and try it out and then come up with ideas/bugs/requests. These offerers usually wind up not having time to look at it and generally are a waste of the developers time. I fully agree with Siddesh. btw, Siddesh, your translation is ready at http://bitbucket.org/lawgon/tamtrans/, sorry for the delay, but a couple of guys 'offered' to review the translation, but vanished without a trace. (about 15 strings are not done).
On Saturday 02 January 2010 13:44:39 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Saturday 02 Jan 2010 12:39:40 pm Saswata Banerjee & Associates
wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list.
lot of people offer to test software - the very fact that a person is offering and expecting some one to take him up on the offer shows he is not serious. Anyone even vaguely serious would go to the website, look at the software, download and try it out and then come up with ideas/bugs/requests. These offerers usually wind up not having time to look at it and generally are a waste of the developers time.
Suhit is offering to broker a deal with someone else. He is not interested himself in the software to run the above mentioned gauntlet. Nor will the "someone else", i presume. In this specific case considering that the birde is all decked up and ready to go, I think Suhit's offer is as good as it gets.
On 1/2/2010 1:44 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Saturday 02 Jan 2010 12:39:40 pm Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list.
lot of people offer to test software - the very fact that a person is offering and expecting some one to take him up on the offer shows he is not serious. Anyone even vaguely serious would go to the website, look at the software, download and try it out and then come up with ideas/bugs/requests.
You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own. Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
These offerers usually wind up not having time to look at it and generally are a waste of the developers time.
I wonder what about the time when the tester wasted his time as there is no response from the developers. Think of it from the CA's point of view. He will rarely work on a mailing list.
I fully agree with Siddesh. btw, Siddesh, your translation is ready at http://bitbucket.org/lawgon/tamtrans/, sorry for the delay, but a couple of guys 'offered' to review the translation, but vanished without a trace. (about 15 strings are not done).
On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 16:12 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 1:44 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Saturday 02 Jan 2010 12:39:40 pm Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list.
lot of people offer to test software - the very fact that a person is offering and expecting some one to take him up on the offer shows he is not serious. Anyone even vaguely serious would go to the website, look at the software, download and try it out and then come up with ideas/bugs/requests.
You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own. Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software. Agreed, that is why we have the deb packages which can be double clicked.
Any ways such small queries are most welcome from any mailing list because we are not a bunch of volantary hackers working in our spare time. an organisation like NIXI gave funds for paying full-time programmres and now we also have domain expert from accounting background, again payed full-time on this project. Organisation like comet media foundation has just started to use it for their accounting and they provide infrastructure for this project and we wish to give payed support as well.
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
I disagree, to know that some thing went wrong he will first have to try it out and I feel that on a testing ground, mailing list is not a bad thing at all. It is a wrong notion that developers will get back "some time ", at least in this context when they are professionally employed for that. In this situation a mailing list is a very powerful tool. I offered to be contacted personally so that I could share phone numbers etc. Else I would still recommend that the mailing list is used.
happy hacking Krishnakant.
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 1:44 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Saturday 02 Jan 2010 12:39:40 pm Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list.
lot of people offer to test software - the very fact that a person is offering and expecting some one to take him up on the offer shows he is not serious. Anyone even vaguely serious would go to the website, look at the software, download and try it out and then come up with ideas/bugs/requests.
You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own.
Very true. If we want the majority to see our software we have to release it on their platform. Once gnukhata becomes gnukhata.exe, it will see a lot of downloads. It is not just CAs who use Tally. Everyone who uses the services of a CA uses Tally as that's the format used for their company accounts. If you have a word document, you need a word processor to view/edit it.
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
Yes. Many people are not 'file a bug report' savvy.
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
Yes. Many people are not 'file a bug report' savvy.
Yes, but there's a number of them who would be perfectly willing to pick up a phone and make a call to someone to complain/troubleshoot. Support helps here. Paid support helps quicker.
Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
The 'mukti' is from the license and quota raj where the user has to shell out loads of money every year to upgrade his software so that he can continue using it to its desired potential. If it costs him a bigger amount to move to FOSS I doubt if he will go for it. Anyway that is different from testing of FOSS software which is the topic of discussion?
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
Yes. Many people are not 'file a bug report' savvy.
Yes, but there's a number of them who would be perfectly willing to pick up a phone and make a call to someone to complain/troubleshoot. Support helps here. Paid support helps quicker.
We are still testing the software on an experimental basis. What you are mentioning is support for full production ready software.
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
The 'mukti' is from the license and quota raj where the user has to shell out loads of money every year to upgrade his software so that he can continue using it to its desired potential. If it costs him a bigger amount to move to FOSS I doubt if he will go for it. Anyway that is different from testing of FOSS software which is the topic of discussion?
Agreed, mostly. For such a testing effort to happen, there has to be someone who is motivated to initiate the entire thing. It will either be an eager FOSS enthusiast trying to urges his friends/family/relatives (e.g. Suhit with his dad, me with my mom a long time ago) or someone who is looking to get business by supporting that software. That is where the paid bit comes into the picture.
It is a completely different scenario with volunteer developers. You cannot expect a volunteer developer to go out of his way for someone who is willing to test his app without the tester actively trying as well. In fact, it is always someone other than the dev (the tester or someone else) who is coordinating this effort since the developer's interest is mostly technical and his own needs as opposed to someone else's.
On Saturday 02 January 2010 21:01:47 Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
You have got to displace the incumbent. Cost is one pain point and is the easiest entry point. Of course as pointed out elsewhere in the thread you are going to be out if you do not deliver a superior solution, especially since the user has no monetary stake.
Yes, but there's a number of them who would be perfectly willing to pick up a phone and make a call to someone to complain/troubleshoot. Support helps here. Paid support helps quicker.
Not when you have zero wins and credentials to back you up.
On 1/2/2010 9:24 PM, jtd wrote:
On Saturday 02 January 2010 21:01:47 Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Ronygnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
You have got to displace the incumbent. Cost is one pain point and is the easiest entry point. Of course as pointed out elsewhere in the thread you are going to be out if you do not deliver a superior solution, especially since the user has no monetary stake.
Yes, but there's a number of them who would be perfectly willing to pick up a phone and make a call to someone to complain/troubleshoot. Support helps here. Paid support helps quicker.
Not when you have zero wins and credentials to back you up.
So very true sir !
On 1/2/2010 9:01 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Ronygnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True.
+1 and they should hence be paying for support for that software if they're looking at moving to a FOSS program because it is better. If they're looking at FOSS only as a cost cutting compromise then they're screwed anyway because they've misunderstood the first thing about FOSS -- it is Free as in Freedom (mukt) and not food (muft).
Wow ! You guys are really not in touch with market realities. You expect someone to pay for support to test whether a particular (unknown and unrecognised) software is going to meet his needs ? You actually think so ? Please find me one such client....i would like to see it happen.
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
Yes. Many people are not 'file a bug report' savvy.
Yes, but there's a number of them who would be perfectly willing to pick up a phone and make a call to someone to complain/troubleshoot. Support helps here. Paid support helps quicker.
This thing actually makes me laugh.
We work with a number of software. When we started first with SAGE ERP and CRM, they didnt ask us to pay for support or pay for getting the software running when we were yet to decide whether to recommend it to our clients. They had someone install a copy on a local pc for us to test. Their support engineer in mumbai was available to us on phone when we had some questions on how it works and some configuration tool. Mind you, they didnt say get on our mailing list.
Today we are testing another accounting software from another local indian vendor. I am not paying for support. If they were to ask me for money for that, i will throw out that software and choose another.
If ofcourse we were trying out SAP, it would be a different story. They dont need to prove anything to us as they already have a 70% market share. However, thinking back, I remember they also offered us help through some of their implementation partners when we were evaluating whether it suites our clients
On 1/2/2010 8:46 PM, Rony wrote:
**** deleted ***** You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software
professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own.
Very true. If we want the majority to see our software we have to release it on their platform. Once gnukhata becomes gnukhata.exe, it will see a lot of downloads. It is not just CAs who use Tally. Everyone who uses the services of a CA uses Tally as that's the format used for their company accounts. If you have a word document, you need a word processor to view/edit it.
Hi Rony, I was waiting to see when you would come out in support. Of people on this list, i think you understand what the market really wants. Actually it does not even have to be a .exe file. It has to be easily installable. I should be able to load it with a single click (or at best 3).
An interesting case here is of a client of ours in kenya, who moved to using vtiger crm only because it was available on a single exe file in windows platform where it automatically installed apache, mysql, created the database, put the relevant php files in the correct place and started the browser with the url. If he had to get a linux server, struggle for a week to get it running or pay someone to set it up for him, they would never have moved. Now after testing and run it with limited users, he is considering moving it to a server, where he will consider a linux based system.
Or if someone sets it up for him. He is not going to develop inhouse linux expertise just to be able to test this software.
True
Secondly, the CA concerned is not going to bother to test the software and then put details of bugs he has found on the mailing list and sit on his hunches waiting for somone some time to respond. He would instead be interested only if he has a direct access to the developer where he can pick up the phone and say "hey buddy, this is what we did and it went like this which is not how the accounts should be." and to be able to explain what happened or should happen and perhaps get them to duplicate it at their end. If you want domain experts to do the software testing, then you cant (at least in this case) wait for a linux savy and linux expert CA to come and do it.
Yes. Many people are not 'file a bug report' savvy.
On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 00:45 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 8:46 PM, Rony wrote:
**** deleted ***** You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software
professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own.
Very true. If we want the majority to see our software we have to release it on their platform. Once gnukhata becomes gnukhata.exe, it will see a lot of downloads. It is not just CAs who use Tally. Everyone who uses the services of a CA uses Tally as that's the format used for their company accounts. If you have a word document, you need a word processor to view/edit it.
Hi Rony, I was waiting to see when you would come out in support. Of people on this list, i think you understand what the market really wants. Actually it does not even have to be a .exe file. It has to be easily installable. I should be able to load it with a single click (or at best 3).
Very true.
An interesting case here is of a client of ours in kenya, who moved to using vtiger crm only because it was available on a single exe file in windows platform where it automatically installed apache, mysql, created the database, put the relevant php files in the correct place and started the browser with the url. If he had to get a linux server, struggle for a week to get it running or pay someone to set it up for him, they would never have moved. Now after testing and run it with limited users, he is considering moving it to a server, where he will consider a linux based system.
This easy installation is such a critical situation. I wished to try the semi-finished accounting software from KG, but the installation process with downloading different dependencies and doing all the rituals put my domain expert away from it and even I being a hacker did not or could not find sufficient time to look at the entire process. On the contrary, we have seen to it that gnukhata would have just 2 deb packages, install server deb with a double click and the client as well.
We are looking at a possibility of including the postgresql server in the server deb right now.
Besides, database creation process in gnukhata is as simple as selecting the financial year, putting the name of the organisations and clicking setup.
I am happy that people on this list think alike.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Krishnakant hackingkk@gmail.com wrote:
We are looking at a possibility of including the postgresql server in the server deb right now.
This will make it more fat. How will you address security issues which may appear in postgresql? ( ..and this should really be discussed well at gnukhata-devel list. I'm there and haven't seen such wide discussion like there. If other people who are throwing there awesome knowledge here, please discuss there and give this list life. Thanks for understanding!)
On Sunday 03 January 2010 07:59:26 Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Krishnakant hackingkk@gmail.com
wrote:
We are looking at a possibility of including the postgresql server in the server deb right now.
This will make it more fat. How will you address security issues which may appear in postgresql?
IMO , if you are going to scale with writes you have no option. And what is the problem with PG security>.
( ..and this should really be discussed well at gnukhata-devel list. I'm there and haven't seen such wide discussion like there. If other people who are throwing there awesome knowledge here, please discuss there and give this list life. Thanks for understanding!)
Preaching at the katha pulpit wont pull in more people. Think of this as 3idiots press con.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:09 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
This will make it more fat. How will you address security issues which may appear in postgresql?
IMO , if you are going to scale with writes you have no option. And what is the problem with PG security>.
With single security update of PG, GNUKhata need unnecessary update. And, yes, let me know such examples in real life.
Preaching at the katha pulpit wont pull in more people. Think of this as 3idiots press con.
Yet to see 3 Idiots. So, no comments!
On Sunday 03 January 2010 16:19:35 Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:09 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
This will make it more fat. How will you address security issues which may appear in postgresql?
IMO , if you are going to scale with writes you have no option. And what is the problem with PG security>.
With single security update of PG, GNUKhata need unnecessary update. And, yes, let me know such examples in real life.
I missed the "packaging pg with GNU/katha" statement. That is a definite nono.
Preaching at the katha pulpit wont pull in more people. Think of this as 3idiots press con.
Yet to see 3 Idiots. So, no comments!
I am referring to press conference, not the movie ;-).
On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 07:59 +0530, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Krishnakant hackingkk@gmail.com wrote:
We are looking at a possibility of including the postgresql server in the server deb right now.
This will make it more fat. How will you address security issues which may appear in postgresql?
Already got some wonderful inputs from Siddhesh. I had thought about having a kind of gnukhata repo on a cd and writing an Installation UI which runs automatically when the cd is put in.
( ..and this should really be discussed well at gnukhata-devel list. I'm there and haven't seen such wide discussion like there. If other people who are throwing there awesome knowledge here, please discuss there and give this list life. Thanks for understanding!)
Yes and thanks to you and people like siddhesh, we really have a nice set of contributers. Discussion has already started there and I welcome every one who would like to discuss.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/2/2010 8:46 PM, Rony wrote:
**** deleted ***** You are still in a blinked situation thinking of linux savy software
professionals. A CA wanting to test the software for use will only be interested in doing it through double clicking on a .exe file so that it installs on its own.
Very true. If we want the majority to see our software we have to release it on their platform. Once gnukhata becomes gnukhata.exe, it will see a lot of downloads. It is not just CAs who use Tally. Everyone who uses the services of a CA uses Tally as that's the format used for their company accounts. If you have a word document, you need a word processor to view/edit it.
Hi Rony, I was waiting to see when you would come out in support. Of people on this list, i think you understand what the market really wants. Actually it does not even have to be a .exe file. It has to be easily installable. I should be able to load it with a single click (or at best 3).
Hi Saswata. I am still new to Linux compared to other experienced and dedicated people on the list. Doze users have a different way of thinking and using computers so if we want to reach out to them we have to think their way. BTW, I do support guiding software developers to the dedicated development list rather than this list for detailed developer discussions. FOSS is becoming popular among ordinary users mainly because installable packages are available off the net and for the Doze platform. Unless people try it out on their current platform, they will not suddenly move over to a new environment just for a single package. If it is something network based and cross platform then maybe they can setup one extra Linux machine as the server and let it interact with other existing doze clients through a common interface. That way an old machine can be setup as the Linux machine for testing.
An interesting case here is of a client of ours in kenya, who moved to using vtiger crm only because it was available on a single exe file in windows platform where it automatically installed apache, mysql, created the database, put the relevant php files in the correct place and started the browser with the url. If he had to get a linux server, struggle for a week to get it running or pay someone to set it up for him, they would never have moved. Now after testing and run it with limited users, he is considering moving it to a server, where he will consider a linux based system.
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
http://lists.cis-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnukhata-users
LUG-Bom != GnuKhata Mailing list
Very interesting Siddhesh, Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and Open Source and that has been crying about the need for an accounting software designed to make linux more acceptable to the general users. And when a person on this list is offering to do something to further the same, you ask him to go to the software's own mailing list. So what is the use of this list ? Then when rony has a problem next time with a proxy software, you will tell him to go and sign up for that software's mailing list and dont bother people here ?
You're confusing two very different things here. When someone asks for troubleshooting help on list, it does not require intervention from the developers to be able to solve the problem. The question is not pointed at the developers. In that sense, the problem is likely to be interesting/relevant to a wide audience like a Linux user group.
The topic of the original post is not directly relevant to anyone other than the developers themselves and is directed only at the developers. The email would still have been relevant if the OP did not call out the developers to contact him and instead just left it as an announcement saying that we actually have someone relevant testing GNUKhata. In fact, the ideal sequence of events would be this:
1) OP posts on gnukhata-users making this offer 2) Offer is discussed on the list (or whatever way the devs prefer) and details are ironed out 3) A GNUKhata dev announces on this list that they have such an offer
See how the right content flows on to the right list? Imagine how easy it would be to search like this on google:
foobar site:http://lists.cis-india.org/pipermail/gnukhata-users/
It is simply nonsense to discuss development of apps on anything other than the development list of that app. That is the same reason why the linux newsgroup was separated from comp.os.minix. It pollutes content for both projects.
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can not or should not post here his intention to help, either by himself or through someone else. He has not said he will post the feedback here to this list.
Again, I don't see any reason why GNUKhata _development_ related stuff should be discussed on this list. No, it is not that I'm not interested in how it turns out; it is just not the right place. Many people (like me) have filters in place which categorize emails based on the source mailing list and this just screws things up for us. Announcements of releases, wins, etc. are most welcome because the intention in that case is promotion of their software, which is one of the uses that I see for a LUG mailing list.
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet.
This was not meant to be a flame either. I did not indulge in any namecalling or ranting. I simply pointed to the right place for this email. If you're interested in following GNUKhata development, you really should be signing up to their mailing list. I'm sure they'll like that too since they'll have a clearer idea of who their users are and will also be encouraged by the numbers.
And get a life.
I do, which is why it took me a while to respond :)
Siddhesh
PS: I follow the gnukhata-users as well as the gnukhata-devel lists, not because I am an accountant or a regular GNUKhata hacker. It is because I'm interested in knowing how it turns out. But even if I wasn't, my opinion on this whole thing would not be very different.
2010/1/2 Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com:
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and
It's not dedicated to GNUKhata.
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can
The lead developer may be on vacation or unable to answer emails for some time. At the same time there may be other developers who are lightly loaded, but are not subscribed to this list. They will never see this mail because it was posted to the wrong place.
I am subscribed to this list, but if someone asks a question about a project that I work on, it's highly unlikely that I'll know about it. If they post on my project mailing list, I'll reply within hours.
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet.
Siddhesh helped the OP more than you have. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life. Besides, if you wanted to buy a 3-pin plug, is it better to go to an electrical store or to your local convenience store? Both might have the plug, but the electrical store can ask you what you're going to use it for and give you one that can get you all the current you need.
On 1/2/2010 10:40 PM, Philip Tellis wrote:
2010/1/2 Saswata Banerjee& Associatesscrapo@saswatabanerjee.com:
Here we have a mailing list that is dedicated to Linux, (GNU/Linux) and
It's not dedicated to GNUKhata.
So tell me why gnukhata is not a relevant topic to a linux user group in mumbai
Since GNUKhata has been repeatedly discussed in this forum, and since the lead developer is here on this liust, i see no reason why Suchit can
The lead developer may be on vacation or unable to answer emails for some time. At the same time there may be other developers who are lightly loaded, but are not subscribed to this list. They will never see this mail because it was posted to the wrong place.
If the lead developer is on vacation, i think he will check the archieves when he returns. If he doesnt, he has lost out on an important opportunity. The OP being an user is not going to go and keep hammering at his door. He will move on, as we have.
I am subscribed to this list, but if someone asks a question about a project that I work on, it's highly unlikely that I'll know about it. If they post on my project mailing list, I'll reply within hours.
No normal user is going to subscribe to a project mailing list just because he wishes to offer his services to testing a software for you.
I think its time to stop flaming people for the sake of flaming people. If you cant help, at least keep quiet.
Siddhesh helped the OP more than you have. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life. Besides, if you wanted to buy a 3-pin plug, is it better to go to an electrical store or to your local convenience store? Both might have the plug, but the electrical store can ask you what you're going to use it for and give you one that can get you all the current you need.
I think you should ask the OP if he thinks Siddesh has helped him. I think not. but be my guest
On Friday 01 Jan 2010, Suhit Kelkar wrote:
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
Impressive! If I were in the GK team I'd be jumping for joy -- ground- level testing from real users is something that every software developer believes will happen when he dies and goes to Heaven!
Regards,
-- Raju
On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 07:07 +0530, Raj Mathur wrote:
On Friday 01 Jan 2010, Suhit Kelkar wrote:
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office, and filing feedback on a regular basis about the program. Should the developers please, they could write to me, and I can set up a conversation as per mutual convenience.
Impressive! If I were in the GK team I'd be jumping for joy -- ground- level testing from real users is something that every software developer believes will happen when he dies and goes to Heaven!
Well, we enjoy ours and respect others digital freedom so we are asured place in the heaven. Not that erth is any thing less than that when people offer to test such an important software for large scale foss migration.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
2010/1/1 Suhit Kelkar suhitkelkar@gmail.com
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office,
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the chatter here.
On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 00:48 +0530, Debayan Banerjee wrote:
2010/1/1 Suhit Kelkar suhitkelkar@gmail.com
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office,
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the chatter here.
+2, and debayan, Bravo!
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/3/2010 3:05 AM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 00:48 +0530, Debayan Banerjee wrote:
2010/1/1 Suhit Kelkarsuhitkelkar@gmail.com
Greetings,
My father, a CA in Mumbai, handles non-profits mainly, and also corporates.
He is interested in testing GNUKhata in his office,
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the chatter here.
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
On Sunday 03 Jan 2010 10:16:59 am Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the chatter here.
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
saswata - you have hugely misunderstood this thread. We are not interested in *testing* software. We are interested in *creating* software. For this we need three people: 1. a CA 2. a merchant 3. a coder
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:02 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Sunday 03 Jan 2010 10:16:59 am Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the
chatter
here.
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
saswata - you have hugely misunderstood this thread. We are not interested in *testing* software. We are interested in *creating* software. For this we need three people:
- a CA
- a merchant
- a coder
So what is the synopsis? What is the final outcome of this discussion?
KK, is there a windows version going to be available anytime sooner or later?
Thank you, Abhishek
On Monday 04 January 2010 13:29:58 Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:02 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Sunday 03 Jan 2010 10:16:59 am Saswata Banerjee & Associates
wrote:
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the
chatter
here.
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
saswata - you have hugely misunderstood this thread. We are not interested in *testing* software. We are interested in *creating* software. For this we need three people:
- a CA
- a merchant
- a coder
So what is the synopsis? What is the final outcome of this discussion?
KK, is there a windows version going to be available anytime sooner or later?
IMVVHO unless you have a client server architecture, with the server + database on linux, you are going to wind up running a losing race.
As a business if you need the doze user, you have to separate your support cost from the doze support hassle and cost. Since accounts is a core function in any business you are going to get called everytime doze screws up. The cost of hardware is negligible even for the SME / CA office. Once the linux box is up your support costs are near zero.
IMO supporting an exe on a doze box is suicide. Doubly so in this case, since you will have several platforms to maintain (XP, MS2000 /2003 / 200? /VIsta /XP /??). Even providing a client exe is going to be nightmare never mind db + app.
BTW i practice this. And it works like a charm. And every now and then my box will be the only thing working smoothly while the rest of the systems undergo their periodic brain surgeries. And inevitably customers start asking about how to get rid of doze.
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:00 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
IMVVHO unless you have a client server architecture, with the server + database on linux, you are going to wind up running a losing race.
OpenERP offers all-in-one package for download but with a strong disclaimer that it is to be used only for trial purposes and is not supported. If OpenERP is to be used in production, it is recommended to use official release. IMO, this works nicely for presenting a quick trial to potential customer before getting them to use it for everyday business needs. If I am not mistaken this is the kind of usage that Saswata was talking about.
On 1/4/2010 10:10 PM, Mehul Ved wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:00 PM, jtdjtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
IMVVHO unless you have a client server architecture, with the server + database on linux, you are going to wind up running a losing race.
OpenERP offers all-in-one package for download but with a strong disclaimer that it is to be used only for trial purposes and is not supported. If OpenERP is to be used in production, it is recommended to use official release. IMO, this works nicely for presenting a quick trial to potential customer before getting them to use it for everyday business needs. If I am not mistaken this is the kind of usage that Saswata was talking about.
Not exactly, This particular client had a relatively small requirement, a client servicing team that disparately needed. They are quiet happy with using windows and running the crm on it. (Rajeev gave me a list of security warnings to give them)
They had tried to use it on ubantu (as i didnt know it will run seamlessly on windows) and it failed miserably. And the project value was too small to send someone physically to the client place to install and configure ubantu and all stuff on it.
They will not look at moving to linux for crm till it becomes a product large enough or critical enough for them to invest in a new server and technical skillset to run the server
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Not exactly, This particular client had a relatively small requirement, a client servicing team that disparately needed. They are quiet happy with using windows and running the crm on it. (Rajeev gave me a list of security warnings to give them)
They had tried to use it on ubantu (as i didnt know it will run seamlessly on windows) and it failed miserably. And the project value was too small to send someone physically to the client place to install and configure ubantu and all stuff on it.
They will not look at moving to linux for crm till it becomes a product large enough or critical enough for them to invest in a new server and technical skillset to run the server
The point I was replying on was about the all-in-one installer. As JTD correctly said, it's a security problem with all-in-one installers that the end users are tied upto the version of the dependencies provided by the developers. It's not feasible for developers to release updated packages when every component will have a new release. All-in-one installers are good for quick and easy trial of the software but when you go to production you should not be using them. When moving to production, you should be using the release provided by the vendors/distibutions separately so the administrator can update each component as and when needed instead of waiting for gnukhata team to release updates that fix vulnerabilities in the other components.
Mehul Ved wrote:
All-in-one installers are good for quick and easy trial of the software but when you go to production you should not be using them. When moving to production, you should be using the release provided by the vendors/distibutions separately so the administrator can update each component as and when needed instead of waiting for gnukhata team to release updates that fix vulnerabilities in the other components.
Just curious to know if the separate packages can be installed using a single batch script. That would serve both purposes. I recently purchased an all-in-one PSC of HP (K209a). I downloaded the hplip package for Linux and it ran apt-get commands to download more independent packages and installed them all in one script.
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 10:32:19 Rony wrote:
Mehul Ved wrote:
All-in-one installers are good for quick and easy trial of the software but when you go to production you should not be using them. When moving to production, you should be using the release provided by the vendors/distibutions separately so the administrator can update each component as and when needed instead of waiting for gnukhata team to release updates that fix vulnerabilities in the other components.
Just curious to know if the separate packages can be installed using a single batch script.
Very much so. Infact as both my and Mehul's mail imply it is a trivial exercise. Also the point i am belabouring is that it does not make business sense to have your core software running on doze. Having the client side cross compatible (ideally browser based) is the right way.
Trying to get the user hooked by providing a full doze setup is imo the worst method, simply because it will work only as reliably as Tally / whatever. I have had innumerable microserfs telling me that their machine started malfunctioning when they setup their machines for dual boot. Of course this is rubbish (unless there is insufficient freespace for doze - according to the dozeexperts xp requires huge amount of free disk space, 8 times the ram size).
Also when we say "server" we mean a host machine. For a 4 user setup the "server" (headless, no raid, ie a stock lowcost box) would cost 8k. If that is not affordable, i doubt you could do business with the customer.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM, jtd wrote:
Trying to get the user hooked by providing a full doze setup is imo the worst method, simply because it will work only as reliably as Tally / whatever.
We *are* making a somewhat equivalent of Tally so that those users can make the switch.
I have had innumerable microserfs telling me that their machine started malfunctioning when they setup their machines for dual boot. Of course this is rubbish (unless there is insufficient freespace for doze - according to the dozeexperts xp requires huge amount of free disk space, 8 times the ram size).
Also when we say "server" we mean a host machine. For a 4 user setup the "server" (headless, no raid, ie a stock lowcost box) would cost 8k. If that is not affordable, i doubt you could do business with the customer.
Why would a customer spend 8K to test a software that is still under development?
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 15:31:59 Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM, jtd wrote:
Trying to get the user hooked by providing a full doze setup is imo the worst method, simply because it will work only as reliably as Tally / whatever.
We *are* making a somewhat equivalent of Tally so that those users can make the switch.
I have had innumerable microserfs telling me that their machine started malfunctioning when they setup their machines for dual boot. Of course this is rubbish (unless there is insufficient freespace for doze - according to the dozeexperts xp requires huge amount of free disk space, 8 times the ram size).
Also when we say "server" we mean a host machine. For a 4 user setup the "server" (headless, no raid, ie a stock lowcost box) would cost 8k. If that is not affordable, i doubt you could do business with the customer.
Why would a customer spend 8K to test a software that is still under development?
True. If he is only testing he certainly wont spend a pip. In which case you have to deploy a demo unit. Either at the client's place or on your website.
On 1/5/2010 1:24 PM, jtd wrote:
Also when we say "server" we mean a host machine. For a 4 user setup the "server" (headless, no raid, ie a stock lowcost box) would cost 8k. If that is not affordable, i doubt you could do business with the customer.
1. Customer will not buy a new hardware to test a software, specially for a small team 2. Along with 8k for the server, he will have to pay another 8k for someone to install the server, install the software, configure it
Even for clients with money to spare, the question is of the utility of the 8K. No one is going to pay 8K to test whether a software is good or inadequate for his use.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
jtd wrote:
IMO supporting an exe on a doze box is suicide. Doubly so in this case, since you will have several platforms to maintain (XP, MS2000 /2003 / 200? /VIsta /XP /??). Even providing a client exe is going to be nightmare never mind db + app.
No doubt Linux as the server is any day better than doing the same in doze but in this case, the main target users are ones who use Tally. These are not very big organizations but they are many in volume. These users do not have dedicated machines for Tally. They simply run it along with all the software for daily (mis)use. They keep screwing up the systems and are facing regular breakdowns but they keep a daily or weekly backup of their data and after the systems are up again, they simply restore it and use their systems again. Such users will not want to invest in separate machines just for trying out a 'free equivalent' of Tally. This is just like getting doze users hooked on to Firefox, OpenOffice, and other fossies for doze, before they take the plunge into Linux.
On 1/4/2010 10:55 PM, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
IMO supporting an exe on a doze box is suicide. Doubly so in this case, since you will have several platforms to maintain (XP, MS2000 /2003 / 200? /VIsta /XP /??). Even providing a client exe is going to be nightmare never mind db + app.
No doubt Linux as the server is any day better than doing the same in doze but in this case, the main target users are ones who use Tally. These are not very big organizations but they are many in volume. These users do not have dedicated machines for Tally. They simply run it along with all the software for daily (mis)use. They keep screwing up the systems and are facing regular breakdowns but they keep a daily or weekly backup of their data and after the systems are up again, they simply restore it and use their systems again. Such users will not want to invest in separate machines just for trying out a 'free equivalent' of Tally. This is just like getting doze users hooked on to Firefox, OpenOffice, and other fossies for doze, before they take the plunge into Linux.
We have a windows machine in office to run tally as some clients use it. Its been running for close to 3 years now and there has been no breakdown or problem of any kind. Ofcourse we keep tight control on that machine and therefore probably its safe.
However there are many others who will say the same thing about their systems. WinXP or Win2003 running without giving major problem for 2 years + You are right rony, most people will not invest in a separate machine for linux just to try out an accounting software, however good. If you are talking of having to pay to get it set up (since their inhouse guys can do it), its more difficult.
regards saswata
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/4/2010 10:55 PM, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
IMO supporting an exe on a doze box is suicide. Doubly so in this case, since you will have several platforms to maintain (XP, MS2000 /2003 / 200? /VIsta /XP /??). Even providing a client exe is going to be nightmare never mind db + app.
No doubt Linux as the server is any day better than doing the same in doze but in this case, the main target users are ones who use Tally. These are not very big organizations but they are many in volume. These users do not have dedicated machines for Tally. They simply run it along with all the software for daily (mis)use. They keep screwing up the systems and are facing regular breakdowns but they keep a daily or weekly backup of their data and after the systems are up again, they simply restore it and use their systems again. Such users will not want to invest in separate machines just for trying out a 'free equivalent' of Tally. This is just like getting doze users hooked on to Firefox, OpenOffice, and other fossies for doze, before they take the plunge into Linux.
We have a windows machine in office to run tally as some clients use it. Its been running for close to 3 years now and there has been no breakdown or problem of any kind. Ofcourse we keep tight control on that machine and therefore probably its safe.
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
A tip: In case anyone wants to transfer data from a good machine to a suspected one without getting the USB drive infected, use a Data card that has a R/W lock. After filling in the data, lock the card to read only and transfer data to the infected machine without any tension. USB card readers and lockable micro SD cards are very cheap to procure.
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 10:47 +0530, Rony wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable. GOSH! such a lot of restrictions for keping an OS "SMOOT".
This is by no means freedom. not ideologically and not practically as well. If such a lot of care is to be taken of a machine then why use such an OS in the first place?
A tip: In case anyone wants to transfer data from a good machine to a suspected one without getting the USB drive infected, use a Data card that has a R/W lock. After filling in the data, lock the card to read only and transfer data to the infected machine without any tension. USB card readers and lockable micro SD cards are very cheap to procure.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
Yes no virus and all that. just practical comfort and complete freedom. I don't know why should people pay the cost of not using their pen drives and above listed restrictions for keeping the machine running smooth? I have every thing on my ubuntu box and do just about a any thing with it. I don't have to take care of all this. And now don't give me that microsoft's cheep "rattu tota " kind of answer "since windows is popular there is virus, when linux will become popular you will hav same problems!"
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 10:47:52 Rony wrote:
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/4/2010 10:55 PM, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
IMO supporting an exe on a doze box is suicide. Doubly so in this case, since you will have several platforms to maintain (XP, MS2000 /2003 / 200? /VIsta /XP /??). Even providing a client exe is going to be nightmare never mind db + app.
No doubt Linux as the server is any day better than doing the same in doze but in this case, the main target users are ones who use Tally. These are not very big organizations but they are many in volume. These users do not have dedicated machines for Tally. They simply run it along with all the software for daily (mis)use. They keep screwing up the systems and are facing regular breakdowns but they keep a daily or weekly backup of their data and after the systems are up again, they simply restore it and use their systems again. Such users will not want to invest in separate machines just for trying out a 'free equivalent' of Tally. This is just like getting doze users hooked on to Firefox, OpenOffice, and other fossies for doze, before they take the plunge into Linux.
We have a windows machine in office to run tally as some clients use it. Its been running for close to 3 years now and there has been no breakdown or problem of any kind. Ofcourse we keep tight control on that machine and therefore probably its safe.
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron. But here i am talking of BIG installs. In the case of small installs it takes 3 to 4 years to reach that state, at which point the hardware is "expected" to be replaced.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
On 1/5/2010 3:24 PM, Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
The trick in tally is different. In order to prevent accidental modification of previous year data, the tally data is split into different years. After audit and finalisation, the previous year's tally data is separated and put into a different file so the current year remains small and usable in any case.
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
Can you please test GNUKhata as per $subject of thread?
On 1/5/2010 5:12 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
Can you please test GNUKhata as per $subject of thread?
Ok, i didnt want to discuss this in public, but since you asked. I was there at the launch of the software. I saw some basic problems which i discussed with the lead developer (there was a lady, i fogot the name). I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually) but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
regards saswata
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 17:13 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 5:12 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
Can you please test GNUKhata as per $subject of thread?
Ok, i didnt want to discuss this in public, but since you asked. I was there at the launch of the software. I saw some basic problems which i discussed with the lead developer (there was a lady, i fogot the name).
Bugs are there for fixing and obviously developers keep fixing bugs or seriously work on the feedback.
Same goes for the problems. have you downloaded the recent versions and tryed them out? I hope you are aware that we work full-time on the project so you can safely asume that from the lonch date till today many problems must have been fixt.
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually)
I leave it to Anusha for answering this, but I don't know how difficult it is to double click the deb packages after you install postgresql and other dependencies which are clearly mentioned in the documentation on-line. Even those dependencies can be installed with one click from add remove in Ubuntu or debian.
but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
To the best of my knowledge Anusha did talk to me about this, She would be the best person to answer.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/5/2010 6:06 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 17:13 +0530, Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
Ok, i didnt want to discuss this in public, but since you asked. I was there at the launch of the software. I saw some basic problems which i discussed with the lead developer (there was a lady, i fogot the name).
Bugs are there for fixing and obviously developers keep fixing bugs or seriously work on the feedback.
Same goes for the problems. have you downloaded the recent versions and tryed them out? I hope you are aware that we work full-time on the project so you can safely asume that from the lonch date till today many problems must have been fixt.
No, i have not downloaded or installed the software. This software is not a priority for me, but only an option. So naturally i did not bother when i found developer apathy towards my offer to help. As someone said in this thread.....CAs will start using it when it becomes popular not otherwise. :-)
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually)
I leave it to Anusha for answering this, but I don't know how difficult it is to double click the deb packages after you install postgresql and other dependencies which are clearly mentioned in the documentation on-line. Even those dependencies can be installed with one click from add remove in Ubuntu or debian.
but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
To the best of my knowledge Anusha did talk to me about this, She would be the best person to answer.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 21:25 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 6:06 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 17:13 +0530, Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
Ok, i didnt want to discuss this in public, but since you asked. I was there at the launch of the software. I saw some basic problems which i discussed with the lead developer (there was a lady, i fogot the name).
Bugs are there for fixing and obviously developers keep fixing bugs or seriously work on the feedback.
Same goes for the problems. have you downloaded the recent versions and tryed them out? I hope you are aware that we work full-time on the project so you can safely asume that from the lonch date till today many problems must have been fixt.
No, i have not downloaded or installed the software. This software is not a priority for me, but only an option.
Thanks, But it is a priority for us. I am very sure you are aware of development cycle. I don't think your "favorite" tally was perfect on the first release or there are still absolutely no problems in the current version. Any ways you just wanted to show the oral support for GNUKhata so may be you did not feel like trying it out. Even that is one kind of contribution to free software, thanks again for that.
So naturally i did not bother when i found developer apathy towards my offer to help. As someone said in this thread.....CAs will start using it when it becomes popular not otherwise. :-)
Popularity is not a built-in software module nor a word which is written in comments. And I to my modest knowledge understand that popularity is born out of support for a certain concept or may be a product out of the concept. Well some people contribute by adding fuel to the fire of popularity while some will just wait for the fire to grow untill it is good enough for warming their houses in cold.
Both are correct in their own ways, specially when it comes to a sensitive issue like an accounting software.
I will take this opportunity to sincerely thanks Kartik, Siddhesh, Kenneth (for being so soft spoken and understanding), Mehul and of course Nagarjun who keeps giving us very very useful advice. And thanks to all those who went ahead in testing our software. All the feedback good or bad has been taken seriously and till date more than 80% for the suggested things are implemented by the GNUKhata team.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 12:17:56 am Krishnakant wrote:
I will take this opportunity to sincerely thanks Kartik, Siddhesh, Kenneth (for being so soft spoken and understanding)
is there some other Kenneth on the list?
On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 05:47 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 12:17:56 am Krishnakant wrote:
I will take this opportunity to sincerely thanks Kartik, Siddhesh, Kenneth (for being so soft spoken and understanding)
is there some other Kenneth on the list?
Even I wondered when I read your responses.
Very unlike your responses. Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
hi
Since this is a kind of personal discussion between some specific people, i would like to take it off-list. However since the original post came on public list i would like to respond here just once to clear any doubts which other people might have.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates < scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com> wrote:
On 1/5/2010 5:12 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
Can you please test GNUKhata as per $subject of thread?
Ok, i didnt want to discuss this in public, but since you asked. I was there at the launch of the software. I saw some basic problems which i discussed with the lead developer (there was a lady, i fogot the name).
Except one lead architect all other working on this package are females. :) So kindly mention which lady :) but assumin safely it was me whom you were referring
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually) but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
I already informed you i will be out of station for a month and you said you are busy with your ERP testing and told me to contact through Mehul Ved. When I came back i asked him, he said you are still busy. But after sometime he left your office. Meanwhile we became busy with fundamental problems and adding new features. As a result of which GNUKhata is where it is today.
As KK already mentioned, GNUKhata is now very easy to install, quite unlike how it was in its early days. I hope the doubts are cleared now. Henceforth i request to discuss this off-list if it is personal.
Njoy the share of Freedom, Anusha Kadambala
regards saswata
On 1/5/2010 7:15 PM, anusha k wrote:
Except one lead architect all other working on this package are females. :) So kindly mention which lady :) but assumin safely it was me whom you were referring
As i said, i did not remember the name, but i also think it was you.
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually) but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
I already informed you i will be out of station for a month and you said you are busy with your ERP testing and told me to contact through Mehul Ved. When I came back i asked him, he said you are still busy. But after sometime he left your office. Meanwhile we became busy with fundamental problems and adding new features. As a result of which GNUKhata is where it is today.
As KK already mentioned, GNUKhata is now very easy to install, quite unlike how it was in its early days. I hope the doubts are cleared now. Henceforth i request to discuss this off-list if it is personal.
Yes, you said you would be out of town for a month, but after that a lot of months have passed. You had my card and my contact details (and could have got it from mehul). If you wanted, you could have easily got in touch with me.
Its your product. If you arent interested in help from us, then there is no reason why i should take the trouble. We are already working on alternate software and platforms where your software (while welcome as an additional resource), is not important per se.
I would not even bother with talking on this (your lack of response) but for the fact that someone asked when i will start testing it......and someone else also asked me the same thing offline.
This is also the reason why this topic started.....a normal user (not those involved passionately due to idological interests) will not take the step towards spending time and efforts unless they are clear that the developer is going to be responsive.
regards saswata
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 21:22 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:15 PM, anusha k wrote:
Except one lead architect all other working on this package are females. :) So kindly mention which lady :) but assumin safely it was me whom you were referring
As i said, i did not remember the name, but i also think it was you.
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually) but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
I already informed you i will be out of station for a month and you said you are busy with your ERP testing and told me to contact through Mehul Ved. When I came back i asked him, he said you are still busy. But after sometime he left your office. Meanwhile we became busy with fundamental problems and adding new features. As a result of which GNUKhata is where it is today.
As KK already mentioned, GNUKhata is now very easy to install, quite unlike how it was in its early days. I hope the doubts are cleared now. Henceforth i request to discuss this off-list if it is personal.
Yes, you said you would be out of town for a month, but after that a lot of months have passed. You had my card and my contact details (and could have got it from mehul). If you wanted, you could have easily got in touch with me.
Its your product. If you arent interested in help from us, then there is no reason why i should take the trouble. We are already working on alternate software and platforms where your software (while welcome as an additional resource), is not important per se.
who is us? Any ways we don't force people to use a certain product. If it is not important for you then thanks for your time. May be it just does not fit your needs, you can try some thing else.
I would not even bother with talking on this (your lack of response) but for the fact that someone asked when i will start testing it......and someone else also asked me the same thing offline.
If you are really interested to test it then you are most wlecome to contact me and Anusha off list an we can fix things up. Infact it will be the right time to test the software given its current stage.
This is also the reason why this topic started.....a normal user (not those involved passionately due to idological interests) will not take the step towards spending time and efforts unless they are clear that the developer is going to be responsive.
Kindly stay away from generalising. I think it is best recommended to confine yourself to topic at hand. You might not even know if end-users useed the software or not (may be others find it important ) and (may be they are end users as well ).
And by the way if I remember correctly, Suhit asked a direct help for getting gnukhata so he could test. I responded to him off-list with the information. Any ways the this list is fast taking shape of an on-line parliment where people just know to chatter and fight, with occasional productive help from dedicated people like Kartik and Siddhesh who smartly took the focused and productive talk to our developers mailing list.
Suhit, I hope you got your dep packages as I mailed them to you off-line with 3 attachments. If not then do let me know off-list.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/6/2010 12:28 AM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 21:22 +0530, Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:15 PM, anusha k wrote:
Except one lead architect all other working on this package are females. :) So kindly mention which lady :) but assumin safely it was me whom you were referring
As i said, i did not remember the name, but i also think it was you.
I offered to sit and work with them and to test it if it meets my requirement. She promised to get back to me and fix the time of when to do it (i cant install it without help actually) but never happened. Didnt hear back from them. so dropped the idea
I already informed you i will be out of station for a month and you said you are busy with your ERP testing and told me to contact through Mehul Ved. When I came back i asked him, he said you are still busy. But after sometime he left your office. Meanwhile we became busy with fundamental problems and adding new features. As a result of which GNUKhata is where it is today.
As KK already mentioned, GNUKhata is now very easy to install, quite unlike how it was in its early days. I hope the doubts are cleared now. Henceforth i request to discuss this off-list if it is personal.
Yes, you said you would be out of town for a month, but after that a lot of months have passed. You had my card and my contact details (and could have got it from mehul). If you wanted, you could have easily got in touch with me.
Its your product. If you arent interested in help from us, then there is no reason why i should take the trouble. We are already working on alternate software and platforms where your software (while welcome as an additional resource), is not important per se.
who is us?
us - is my firm and our accounting and consulting team.
Any ways we don't force people to use a certain product. If it is not important for you then thanks for your time. May be it just does not fit your needs, you can try some thing else.
That, ofcourse, goes without saying.
I would not even bother with talking on this (your lack of response) but for the fact that someone asked when i will start testing it......and someone else also asked me the same thing offline.
If you are really interested to test it then you are most wlecome to contact me and Anusha off list an we can fix things up. Infact it will be the right time to test the software given its current stage.
This is also the reason why this topic started.....a normal user (not those involved passionately due to idological interests) will not take the step towards spending time and efforts unless they are clear that the developer is going to be responsive.
Kindly stay away from generalising. I think it is best recommended to confine yourself to topic at hand. You might not even know if end-users useed the software or not (may be others find it important ) and (may be they are end users as well ).
ah, i deal with end users in huge lots. I am speaking purely from that view point. I am talking of accounting teams, not developers and FLOSS Pros.
And by the way if I remember correctly, Suhit asked a direct help for getting gnukhata so he could test. I responded to him off-list with the information. Any ways the this list is fast taking shape of an on-line parliment where people just know to chatter and fight, with occasional productive help from dedicated people like Kartik and Siddhesh who smartly took the focused and productive talk to our developers mailing list.
Suhit, I hope you got your dep packages as I mailed them to you off-line with 3 attachments. If not then do let me know off-list.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Krishnakant <> wrote:
who is us? Any ways we don't force people to use a certain product. If it is not important for you then thanks for your time. May be it just does not fit your needs, you can try some thing else.
When you are developing a new product it is your requirement to approach as many people as possible to sell your idea. I think you and Saswata can meet up over a beer or coffee and biscuits at his office and setup gnukhata in his machine. Once its on his system let him give all the negative feedback as it will help you improvise your product to high levels.
Kindly stay away from generalising. I think it is best recommended to confine yourself to topic at hand.
He He. Look who's talking. Anyway no hard feelings. Lets extract the wisdom from all the rants and flames and use it to improvise the product. And don't forget the importance of the delivery channel for your product.....the guys who will push your product to the end users.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Rony Bill gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
When you are developing a new product it is your requirement to approach as many people as possible to sell your idea. I think you and Saswata can meet up over a beer or coffee and biscuits at his office and setup gnukhata in his machine. Once its on his system let him give all the negative feedback as it will help you improvise your product to high levels.
If I may suggest: Since the installation itself is a turn off for many who would otherwise genuinely like to help and see a suitable alternative or option, is it possible to
This the system up on a remote host (could be located in your central development office ) and testers access it from wherever they are? How you want it structured (individual instances, single copy etc) is upto you, but this may keep all testing in one place and do away with the need to constantly update the code in each location while testing is going on.
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy somewhere live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Regards Abhishek
On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 14:06 +0530, Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Rony Bill gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
When you are developing a new product it is your requirement to approach as many people as possible to sell your idea. I think you and Saswata can meet up over a beer or coffee and biscuits at his office and setup gnukhata in his machine. Once its on his system let him give all the negative feedback as it will help you improvise your product to high levels.
If I may suggest: Since the installation itself is a turn off for many who would otherwise genuinely like to help and see a suitable alternative or option, is it possible to
This the system up on a remote host (could be located in your central development office ) and testers access it from wherever they are? How you want it structured (individual instances, single copy etc) is upto you, but this may keep all testing in one place and do away with the need to constantly update the code in each location while testing is going on. Yes right. May be the server can setup on a central machine (I am already setting up one server for this ). Then one would only need to grab a handfull of deb packages for client (May be 2 or 3) along with an installation script which just needs to be clicked and it setsup the client which is any ways lightweight and does not need any further configuration.
The realy setup is the server app which in any case will be setup on the server so no pains for testers.
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy somewhere live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Exactly. No smart organisation will ever migrate to another system in the middle of a financial yer, no matter how stable the new software is.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 3:36:42 pm Krishnakant wrote:
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy somewhere live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Exactly. No smart organisation will ever migrate to another system in the middle of a financial yer, no matter how stable the new software is.
and since 2012 will have a truncated financial year - your last chance to test over a full year is 2011.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 3:36:42 pm Krishnakant wrote:
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy
somewhere
live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Exactly. No smart organisation will ever migrate to another system in the middle of a financial yer, no matter how stable the new software is.
and since 2012 will have a truncated financial year - your last chance to test over a full year is 2011.
Ok. is the end really coming?
On Wednesday 06 January 2010 16:01:43 Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 3:36:42 pm Krishnakant wrote:
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy
somewhere
live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Exactly. No smart organisation will ever migrate to another system in the middle of a financial yer, no matter how stable the new software is.
and since 2012 will have a truncated financial year - your last chance to test over a full year is 2011.
Ok. is the end really coming?
Depends on what Mayan magic potion you prefer. Beer and code does not qualify ;-). Closer home the katkari tribals (Murud-Janjira-Dighe) had an earth shattering brew - you would be swimming on land for 2 days.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:44 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Wednesday 06 January 2010 16:01:43 Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 Jan 2010 3:36:42 pm Krishnakant wrote:
It would be a shame to come this far and not be able to deploy
somewhere
live by 1st April 2010. Remember if its not April 1st 2010, then it straightaway goes into April 1st 2011.
Exactly. No smart organisation will ever migrate to another system in the middle of a financial yer, no matter how stable the new software is.
So I met the Gnukhata team for the first time yesterday (except KK who i have met several times in the past). In my limited exposure their application is the closest we have got to something worth considering as a serious contender to existing applications.
Congratulations to them. Ofcourse its not a one size fits all so there will be individual grievances, issues, complaints, but nothing which cannot be handled by the team and from a lot of support from the community end.
I even suggested to them that they should try and seek financial support from within the LUG amongst other sources to supplement their grants. If a few individuals also come forward and commit to incremental amounts for a limited period of time, it should work well for the application.
whats the take on this or is that a complete no-no?
regards abhishek
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 3:24 PM, Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
The trick in tally is different. In order to prevent accidental modification of previous year data, the tally data is split into different years. After audit and finalisation, the previous year's tally data is separated and put into a different file so the current year remains small and usable in any case.
That keeps the records slim and trim. :-) From a database maintainence point of view _if_ this method is good, it could be incorporated in gnukhata too. Even if a file is corrupted, it is only for that year. Can it be split further into months or weeks. Just like it is easier to prevent lost emails in Thunderbird or OE if the mails are spread over different folders (smaller db files). Just thinking aloud.
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
What I've observed is that one cannot take any risk in doze as one can do in Linux. However if one is a careful and disciplined user, the systems run quite trouble free for years. It all depends on the usage.
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 18:47 +0530, Rony wrote:
Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/5/2010 3:24 PM, Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
The trick in tally is different. In order to prevent accidental modification of previous year data, the tally data is split into different years. After audit and finalisation, the previous year's tally data is separated and put into a different file so the current year remains small and usable in any case.
That keeps the records slim and trim. :-) From a database maintainence point of view _if_ this method is good, it could be incorporated in gnukhata too. Even if a file is corrupted, it is only for that year. Can it be split further into months or weeks. Just like it is easier to prevent lost emails in Thunderbird or OE if the mails are spread over different folders (smaller db files). Just thinking aloud. It has been proved time and time again that maintaining data in flat files is *not* safe. That is the reason the entire business of RDBMS flourished. It is not just heavy on software when it comes to searching data (no indexing or any other method) nor it is that secured when you talk at an enterprise level.
And by the way, whether files or RDBMS, is the end user concerned?
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
Most of the real biggies use ERP But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
What I've observed is that one cannot take any risk in doze as one can do in Linux. However if one is a careful and disciplined user, the systems run quite trouble free for years. It all depends on the usage. Yes like not using internet or pen drives.
Wow what a trick to keep it save!
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
On 1/5/2010 7:27 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 18:47 +0530, Rony wrote:
What I've observed is that one cannot take any risk in doze as one can do in Linux. However if one is a careful and disciplined user, the systems run quite trouble free for years. It all depends on the usage. Yes like not using internet or pen drives.
Wow what a trick to keep it save!
Most of the corporates have rules that prevent use of pen drives. Use of internet in most offices is restricted to work and runs through strict firewalls
On 1/5/2010 6:47 PM, Rony wrote:
The trick in tally is different.
In order to prevent accidental modification of previous year data, the tally data is split into different years. After audit and finalisation, the previous year's tally data is separated and put into a different file so the current year remains small and usable in any case.
That keeps the records slim and trim. :-) From a database maintainence point of view _if_ this method is good, it could be incorporated in gnukhata too. Even if a file is corrupted, it is only for that year. Can it be split further into months or weeks. Just like it is easier to prevent lost emails in Thunderbird or OE if the mails are spread over different folders (smaller db files). Just thinking aloud.
Its standard accounting practice that in this case, helps tally. In ERP environment, they have a process to lock the data of completed periods to avoid accidental changes.
Most of the real biggies use ERP
But i have used tally in a US$15 million export house (actually ran their accounts) and worked with another company Rs. 175 Cr multi-location shipping line who used tally purely till we moved them into erp. We used to have upto 3500 primary transactions and another 1500 secondary transactions each month in the export company.
What I've observed is that one cannot take any risk in doze as one can do in Linux. However if one is a careful and disciplined user, the systems run quite trouble free for years. It all depends on the usage.
Few of the SMEs run linux. All of them run tally on windows, so either they are all taking major risk, or the risks are over-stated. Ofcourse, we being a processing center had a practice of sending out backups to the client as a part of our end of day process
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 15:24:32 Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
Tally does not use a database. It uses flat files. Afair until 4.5. And there were several files scattered in "account-num" directories. Corrupt one of them and you had it. Dont know what the current scene is like.
Ironical story: Tally was launched with a curses i/f on dos. They later came up with a GUI that required changing the OS to OS2. I had refused to do that and took it in writing from Peutronics that they would give me the windows version as soon as it was available. They had said within six months. But it took them afair 3 years.
So I understand perfectly what you and Saswata are saying about a trial user committing additional resources. But the easy approach is not likely to work anyway.
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 19:15 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 15:24:32 Rony Bill wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, jtd wrote:
If people are careful with their critical doze systems and don't use them for entertainment or play, avoid using pen drives and opening mail attachments on the net then the systems run quite smoothly until the hardware itself begins to get unstable.
Wait until your database ballons with records 2 years down the line. Especially when you have higher hits. The solution most gleefully suggested by the vendor / consultant is bigger iron.
I've seen records upto 6-7 years in Tally.
But here i am talking of BIG installs.
Do the biggies use Tally?
Tally does not use a database. It uses flat files. Afair until 4.5. And there were several files scattered in "account-num" directories. Corrupt one of them and you had it. Dont know what the current scene is like.
Ironical story: Tally was launched with a curses i/f on dos. They later came up with a GUI that required changing the OS to OS2. I had refused to do that and took it in writing from Peutronics that they would give me the windows version as soon as it was available. They had said within six months. But it took them afair 3 years.
So I understand perfectly what you and Saswata are saying about a trial user committing additional resources. But the easy approach is not likely to work anyway.
I would strongly suggest coming back on topic. While many people see GNUKhata as a good replacement for tally, As JTD and many others noted, the way tally works technically and otherwise is totally different than GNUKhata. And we don't want to just support typicle home users. We see medium to large organisations using it. Soon we will have a web based GNUKhata solution which will just need a browser to run it. So a separate deb package for server will be maintained. We will have it running like a web application so that clowd computing will also be possible with GNUKhata.
And as was pointed out time and time again, I won't like to keep comparing how tally is handling or not handling files. What matters for us is given the fact that we use a very high performance database server (postgresql), how we can further tune up the scalability and how thin the client can get.
On the functional aspect, any good suggestion is wlecome.
Kartik and Siddhesh for example gave us very good ideas for packaging and thanks to them, they are at least not letting that discussion happen on this list (it is a focused discussion which *has* to happen on the gnukhata mailing list).
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 19:23:14 Krishnakant wrote:
I would strongly suggest coming back on topic. While many people see GNUKhata as a good replacement for tally, As JTD and many others noted, the way tally works technically and otherwise is totally different than GNUKhata.
At best you may want to create a data conversion utility.
And we don't want to just support typicle home users. We see medium to large organisations using it. Soon we will have a web based GNUKhata solution which will just need a browser to run it.
EXCELLENT.
So a separate deb package for server will be maintained. We will have it running like a web application so that clowd computing will also be possible with GNUKhata.
Your Demo problems are over ;-).
And as was pointed out time and time again, I won't like to keep comparing how tally is handling or not handling files. What matters for us is given the fact that we use a very high performance database server (postgresql), how we can further tune up the scalability and how thin the client can get.
Later on you shall take a general swipe at non RDBMS and closed systems as a marketing exercise while describing your strengths ;-)
"Katha uses a high performance RDBMS, which helps us scale whenever an individual customer is ready, unlike other products in the market which requires major reinvestment."
On the functional aspect, any good suggestion is wlecome.
Pick one or two ERP systems. Make Katha a part of that. You will have a killer.
Kartik and Siddhesh for example gave us very good ideas for packaging and thanks to them, they are at least not letting that discussion happen on this list (it is a focused discussion which *has* to happen on the gnukhata mailing list).
I am on that list ;-) and read all mails.
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 20:03 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 19:23:14 Krishnakant wrote:
I would strongly suggest coming back on topic. While many people see GNUKhata as a good replacement for tally, As JTD and many others noted, the way tally works technically and otherwise is totally different than GNUKhata.
At best you may want to create a data conversion utility.
Already in process.
And we don't want to just support typicle home users. We see medium to large organisations using it. Soon we will have a web based GNUKhata solution which will just need a browser to run it.
EXCELLENT.
So a separate deb package for server will be maintained. We will have it running like a web application so that clowd computing will also be possible with GNUKhata.
Your Demo problems are over ;-). Yes that's one reason for which I strongly urge my team to rappidly move towards the web application.
I must say that packaging GNUKhata for Desktop was not some thing any of us were experienced, but after this long discussion similar to ones in parliment, at least now we have some one to help in that. Kartik might not have chattered a lot on this thread (not that he did not respond), but he came forward to maintain our deb packages. He already started to work on that. Thanks Kartik. Making it also work like a web app will lessen that problem a bit because we will have to maintain just one deb package, or even have just one script to do the entire setup process and for those who hait command line or feel bash is a game of geeks, I am refering to a installer script that can be clicked and run (as if typing GK-Setup is any difficult ).
And as was pointed out time and time again, I won't like to keep comparing how tally is handling or not handling files. What matters for us is given the fact that we use a very high performance database server (postgresql), how we can further tune up the scalability and how thin the client can get.
Later on you shall take a general swipe at non RDBMS and closed systems as a marketing exercise while describing your strengths ;-)
"Katha uses a high performance RDBMS, which helps us scale whenever an individual customer is ready, unlike other products in the market which requires major reinvestment."
Nice point JTD, thanks for contributing this marketing idea.
On the functional aspect, any good suggestion is wlecome.
Pick one or two ERP systems. Make Katha a part of that. You will have a killer.
Yes, we are already looking at such a solution. Let's find out which erp talks xmlrpc.
Kartik and Siddhesh for example gave us very good ideas for packaging and thanks to them, they are at least not letting that discussion happen on this list (it is a focused discussion which *has* to happen on the gnukhata mailing list).
I am on that list ;-) and read all mails.
Sorry for excluding your name. I know you are a jolli good fellow and would not hang me for that :)
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 13:29 +0530, Abhishek Daga wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:02 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Sunday 03 Jan 2010 10:16:59 am Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the
chatter
here.
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
saswata - you have hugely misunderstood this thread. We are not interested in *testing* software. We are interested in *creating* software. For this we need three people:
- a CA
- a merchant
- a coder
So what is the synopsis? What is the final outcome of this discussion?
KK, is there a windows version going to be available anytime sooner or later?
Right now we don't have any resources for making a windows based installer. We don't have dual booted machines in our labs nither our developers use it. I will soon get some one to put a vertual machine in my box for some days and compile a windows based installer for GNUKhata. Again if there is some one who can help, please do so. I am yet to recieve help for making standard deb packages for debian and ubuntu 8.04 (LTS). And yes our rpms are also non-standard, not even worth mentioning. Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/4/2010 2:08 PM, Krishnakant wrote:
On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 13:29 +0530, Abhishek Daga wrote:
KK, is there a windows version going to be available anytime sooner or later?
Right now we don't have any resources for making a windows based installer. We don't have dual booted machines in our labs nither our developers use it. I will soon get some one to put a vertual machine in my box for some days and compile a windows based installer for GNUKhata. Again if there is some one who can help, please do so. I am yet to recieve help for making standard deb packages for debian and ubuntu 8.04 (LTS). And yes our rpms are also non-standard, not even worth mentioning. Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Not my line of expertise here, but what i saw with vtigercrm is a very good example of what will make the customer happy. (note vtigerCRM is opensourced and on GPL) There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
They also had another download where only the php code and text file with instructions of doing it manually was provided, naturally much smaller in size.
Whether you do it in windows or in linux, if its that easy to install the software, "general users" will be willing to try it out. I also realise that it was easy in windows as the possibility of another copy / version of apache and mysql being already installed on the PC was low..... I have no idea if it checked for existing apache or versions.
regards saswata
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
On Monday 04 January 2010 14:29:32 sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates
scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
You are presuming 1) All the expertise of making your app run on doze is available with the developer 2) That the performance and support issues will remain the same as with linux 3) That doze environments are homogenous
None of which are true. Packaging stuff is the minor problem. There were several installer creation apps available on doze 98, and i am sure would be available on other M$ oses.
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:47 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Monday 04 January 2010 14:29:32 sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates
scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
You are presuming
- All the expertise of making your app run on doze is available with
the developer 2) That the performance and support issues will remain the same as with linux 3) That doze environments are homogenous
Not at all. I was just pointing out that the requirements that the install-configure-work_with_it experience on Linux can be easy and, there are somewhat simple steps to adhere to. An ISV which is looking at quick adoption would be aware of the need to compress the time from the application is procured/purchased to when the application is productized.
There was no assumption of Microsoft products/platforms at all.
On 1/4/2010 3:47 PM, jtd wrote:
On Monday 04 January 2010 14:29:32 sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates
scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
You are presuming
- All the expertise of making your app run on doze is available with
the developer 2) That the performance and support issues will remain the same as with linux 3) That doze environments are homogenous
None of which are true. Packaging stuff is the minor problem. There were several installer creation apps available on doze 98, and i am sure would be available on other M$ oses.
I am not presuming anything sir, I am only stating how another GPL, opensource software has done it and how it has helped adoption in some of the cases i worked on. If the installer is there, then its easier....... Ofcourse, vtigercrm being php based automatically becomes platform independent, which is not the case for GNU-Khata
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Ofcourse, vtigercrm being php based automatically becomes platform independent, which is not the case for GNU-Khata
Why would gnukhata not be? From what I know all the components are cross platform - python, gtk, postgresql
On 1/4/2010 10:18 PM, Mehul Ved wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Ofcourse, vtigercrm being php based automatically becomes platform independent, which is not the case for GNU-Khata
Why would gnukhata not be? From what I know all the components are cross platform - python, gtk, postgresql
Hi Mehul Welcome to the debate.....was wondering where you were. I never used python or gtk, so i wouldnt know and therefore wouldnt venture to comment. My point was more on vtigercrm. Its on php, and most browser centric software are designed to be platform independent. Since vtigercrm uses apache, mysql and php, it was very easy for them to design a packager that will install apache on windows (most win machines dont have apache installed), install mysql and put the PHP files in the relevant directory. No major registry settings, components, etc.......
If GnuKhata is platform independent, then moving to a windows environment should be even more easy.
regards saswata
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Saswata Banerjee & Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
If GnuKhata is platform independent, then moving to a windows environment should be even more easy.
Please come to GNUKhata development list and discuss there. ILUG-BOM is not place to discuss Windows stuff.
Thanks a lot for understanding.
On 1/4/2010 2:29 PM, sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
Absolutely right sir, What i was saying is that vtigerCRM made it very easy to install and run it, where geeky expertise was not needed and first time adoption by the client happened. I saw some earlier comments on it regarding security issues on postgressql packaged with GNUKhata (i dont know if thats the same thing).....
On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 17:10 +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:
On 1/4/2010 2:29 PM, sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Saswata Banerjee& Associates scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
There is an exe file that my client downloaded (after ubantu failed to install apache from its own repository for some reason) When the exe was run, it first installed apache server on windows then it installed mysql on windows and then copied the php codes to the relevant folder and created the database in mysql initiated the browser and took it to the login page of the crm.
What you are pointing out is a function of packaging the application and, configuring the dependencies/requirements appropriately so as to enable install the application plus the relevant packages and, then using a sample configuration file to start the service.
Absolutely right sir, What i was saying is that vtigerCRM made it very easy to install and run it, where geeky expertise was not needed and first time adoption by the
client happened.
Even now, you need not have a "geeki " expert to install many packages including GNUKhata. The issue is whether we make one "monolithic" big executable file, or should we have the packages in their own installers. In any case the end user will still get a single "install" or "setup" executable which will run all the installers in proper order. So the discussion was about the internals not the user facing side.
I saw some earlier comments on it regarding security issues on postgressql packaged with GNUKhata (i dont know if thats the same thing).....
Yes, thanks to siddesh and my personal experience and tips from JTD, the problem is sorted out.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On 1/4/2010 5:02 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Sunday 03 Jan 2010 10:16:59 am Saswata Banerjee& Associates wrote:
Thanks for helping Free Software in your own way. Never mind the chatter here
+2,
+3, even if a large part of the chatter is created by me..... My appologies to Suhit for diverting the attention from his efforts
saswata - you have hugely misunderstood this thread. We are not interested in *testing* software. We are interested in *creating* software. For this we need three people:
- a CA
- a merchant
- a coder
Ok, i do not know when i said you want to test software. No one wants to test software. Its like everyone wants others to listen to them but are not willing to listen to others talking :-)
-
Abhishek Daga -
Amol Hatwar -
anusha k -
Debayan Banerjee -
jtd -
Kartik Mistry -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Krishnakant -
Mehul Ved -
Philip Tellis -
Raj Mathur -
Rony -
Rony Bill
-
sankarshan -
Saswata Banerjee & Associates -
Siddhesh Poyarekar -
Suhit Kelkar