Linuxers January 2005

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

120 participants
184 discussions

Thunderbird Printing
by Rony Bill 09 Jan '05

09 Jan '05

The print quality in thunderbird improved by making some changes in its font settings. 1. In Preferences, in the Display option, instead of default 'Fixed Width Font', the 'Variable Width Font' was selected. This gave a better shape to the font look. 2. In Preferences, in the Fonts option, the 'Proportional' and 'Monospace' fonts text boxes were given the option 'Sans Serif'. This also improved the look of the messages in the window too. The message printouts are quite decent now. Regards, Rony.

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Invitation
by Rajesh Bhide 09 Jan '05

09 Jan '05

Rajesh Bhide has invited you to join hi5. By joining hi5, you will be connected to Rajesh and all of Rajesh's friends. hi5 is the place where friends meet. You can use hi5 for the following purposes: * Find old friends * Meet new people * Browse photos Join Rajesh, meet Rajesh's friends, and meet people that share your interests now! Click here: http://www.hi5.com/splash/YX3AL?inviteId=LPO17D00F16988221l143178537 This invitation was sent to linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in on behalf of Rajesh Bhide (rajeshsbhide2111(a)yahoo.co.in). If you do not wish to receive invitations from hi5 members, click on the link below: http://www.hi5.com/friend/displayBlockInvite.do?inviteId=143178537

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lan connection problem
by Kenneth Gonsalves 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

hi i had a redhat 7.1 server connected over bnc cable to a windoze machine. No problems. I changed the server to mandrake10 and the cable to utp - just a crossover cable. the nic cards on the two machines have been tested and they work. When the cable is connected, both lan cards show a steady green light. But ping doesnt ping. They guy who made the cable says that if the green lights are steady on both sides it means the wiring is correct. Is he right? -- regards kg tally ho! http://avsap.sourceforge.net

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

On Friday 07 January 2005 19:35, Vickram Crishna wrote: I did the excercise of contacting and providing a background on FOSS and piracy to many cybercafes in a brief spell of prophetic zeal to save the "oh so poor souls". The superciliousness about harming somones rights should be seen to be believed. The cafe wallas care a shit about piracy, although fully clued in about the repercussions. So unlike most i do the groundwork before faffing. And it is not about billy baba, it is also about Corel, Adobe, Umpteen games, antivirus, firewalls. I found almost the same stuff in every cybercafe. Most of the owners were not poor, they owned multiple cafes. In any case if u happen to own a cybercafe you are proly in the top 20% of the wealth bracket in our country. Most surprisingly the very few really small owners were at least receptive to an alternative and quite apologetic about piracy. Unfortunately they do not form a sustainable market. > >But in brief > >1) we are talking and mixing multiple un related bussinesses and > > issues Training for end users and sys admins / service guys / > > installers Linux windows integration (u require highily skilled > > personnel) > > I don't think this point entered the discussion - it was merely > about giving end consumers (not the cybercafes but their customers) Eh. Where does the cybercafe walla come in then. Enduser seminars have been an on going prorgramme in the lug. > >Social change > >Law > > How can we live around FOSS without comprehending the extent of > social change this fosters? Seems to me that many here are still > confused about this. I see no harm in raising issues and awareness > now and then. No harm at all. but dont mix it with an excuse for illegal and unethical bussiness. > > >2) The individuals involved in piracy dont care. Their interests > > lie merely in making a fast buck. > > Cybercafe rates are not dependent - No they arent. But they sure have a keen sense of bussiness when it comes to screwing other peoples rights. Who cares if their bussiness sinks like a stone. They will be replaced with FOSS savvy entrepreneurs. > > >3) Many in this posts seem to think that since piracy is the norm > > it has to be acceptable. > > In one sense, this is actually true - even law school will tell you > that the pirate is defined by the lawmaker - when roles change, so > do definitions. But once again, let us not get sidetracked. The > discussion is about building a business case for FOSS services to > cybercafes, and using the LUG meeting to explore this. Here we go in contra mode > "it was merely about giving end consumers (not the cybercafes but > their customers)" Are we talking of a bussiness model using FOSS for the cafe walla? Or is it the end user. > > >4) Many in this post think that people with poor tech skills are > > not to blame for their woes. > > How many PCO operators know beans about telephony? Or how many car > owners about automotive engineering? The PCO service guy knows a lot about the pco and the billing machine and the uneducated car mechanic too knows a lot more about cars than the average B.E mech. Dont confuse enduser with service provider. > Just as these two technologies > have become ubiquitous, so can we help make general purpose > computers running FOSS become ubiquitous. FOSS is already ready. Save for a legal thingy or two to do with illegal trade practices and monopolies. > main loser (at least in India) > is billy boy (unless cafes have illegal copies ;-) of Tally), AFAIR three cafes did.And come to think of it there was Delphi in one, VC++, CD ripping tools. It is possible tho unlikely that a user installed the stuff. > other popular software application needed on > Windows comes free, and is probably designed that way precisely > because the vendor or developer wants it to be that way. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041228040645419 Should remove any doubts. > Maybe it needs > a small-scale business to do this. Why close our minds to the > possibilities before they are even discussed? > But why are there so many list cribbers who seem to think that new > avenues of making money should not even be discussed before > dismissing the concept right away? How about some lurkers throwing > in their two bits? Not without a commitment to the foundation of foss - Respect for other peoples rights no matter how stiffling. By accepting gross licence violations u are doing a grave injustice ] to GNU/Linux. There have been court cases by foss developers (Netfilter) against bussineses violating the GPL. Linksys - CISCO were forced to publish their modifications when the FSF threatened legal action. They too had wishy washy arguments for violating others rights. And BTW the list cribbers are the ones who have spent their time and money repeatedly in holding seminars and training sessions (Dr. Nagarjuna, Philip, Dinesh, Parag, Trevor, me rarely :-( and several others). So go ahead and oraganise one for cybercafe's AFTER their assoc has done their miniscule favour to themselves. I will most certainly be there to help at the seminar in any way u suggest. BTW there is a distro specifically for cybercafes. Google and find. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] cluster management tools
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

> Does anyone know debian based or redhat based cluster management > tools. I know about rocks(3.3.3) RxC roll. But It requires a > product key and all. http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=cluster&section=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 yielded 5 pages.And the distro is not relevant. A recomppile will do the job. Since u are talking of clusters which is not a regular newbie task i am sure u will know how. If you need tools search at http://freshmeat.net/ or http://sourceforge.net/search/ and of course finally google. Post the results of your research if u want something meaningful. It took me all of one minute to find the above five pages. Since cluster managment (or any other app for that matter) depends on the nature of the problem u are trying to solve u are likely to get stupid or rant responses like this one to a stupid question. And this was preeceded by a loooong argument about laziness and ineptitude on the list if u bother to read. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by Saswata Banerjee 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

> >Exactly. The cyber cafe seems to me a waste of time as a commercial propostion unless someone is willing to work at slave labour rates. >Or add the cyber cafe revenue as opportunity bonus to an existing linux service catering to more up market clients by using the cybercafe as a training ground. The advocacy for cafewalas thingy by the lugs does not gel. It will be better addressed by (????????????????) > one apprach that may work is to tackle sify and reliance. If anyone has contacts there we can cnvince them. They have a software cost which bites and economics works in linux favour. They will say there is not enough support tallent in the market and we can say, ok, this is the list of independent support people by location and this is they rate you need to pay.......... If we can get lugs in smaller cities to provide such lists, even better. Say what ? Saswata > > >-- >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by Vickram Crishna 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 18:56, Ashish Saboo wrote: >> Terrence, >> I for one certainly look forward for a " Real Education " & >> this is the reason I am on this mailing list. Here I am > >My earlier mail has been rejected due to size and i dont have a copy. > >But in brief >1) we are talking and mixing multiple un related bussinesses and issues >Training for end users and sys admins / service guys / installers >Linux windows integration (u require highily skilled personnel) I don't think this point entered the discussion - it was merely about giving end consumers (not the cybercafes but their customers) familiar applications - and I think there is good reason to believe that end consumers have little idea that 'IE' and 'Email' are two different things. >Social change >Law How can we live around FOSS without comprehending the extent of social change this fosters? Seems to me that many here are still confused about this. I see no harm in raising issues and awareness now and then. >2) The individuals involved in piracy dont care. Their interests lie >merely in making a fast buck. Cybercafe rates are not dependent - almost completely inelastic, I would venture to say - on software pricing. Telecom pricing and cybercafe rates are far more closely linked. The issue of piracy is only related (by me, in the original post, so please let us not get seriously sidetracked into general discussions of piracy) to an attempt to reduce the hafta percentage in the total cost of ownership. Nothing else. >3) Many in this posts seem to think that since piracy is the norm it >has to be acceptable. In one sense, this is actually true - even law school will tell you that the pirate is defined by the lawmaker - when roles change, so do definitions. But once again, let us not get sidetracked. The discussion is about building a business case for FOSS services to cybercafes, and using the LUG meeting to explore this. >4) Many in this post think that people with poor tech skills are not >to blame for their woes. How many PCO operators know beans about telephony? Or how many car owners about automotive engineering? Just as these two technologies have become ubiquitous, so can we help make general purpose computers running FOSS become ubiquitous. Or not, if we choose to think the job is either unproductive or unremunerative. See below, the point about SLA's and wishlists. >Cyber cafe assoc describe your setup >Get your members to accept that they will not use illegal software >Tell us what is the SLA u want and the price u are willing to pay. Wow! At last someone is repeating exactly what was asked in the original post: a meeting between interested parties (cafewalas and FOSSwalas) to thrash out exactly these points. Once a definition is posited, the issue of remunerative efforts and productive use of time becomes relevant and a range of charges can be agreed upon. > >Rony Bill, Crishna et all >Tell us your SLA and your charges >Tell the cybercafe boys what hardware he should buy or better still >what hardware u will sell him. >What backend services and systems you will provide. Some confusion here: I don't think either of us (at least not me) is in any business connected with supply or service of hardware. Why don't you google and find out for yourself before you start making a lot of assumptions? >All the hot air about social issues, poverty, personal gain metrics, >difficulty of using linux et all will evaporate and put things in >the right perespective Which is - the cybercafe guy is happy making >his >living at somone elses expense and our list cribbers are happy >pretending that they dont need skills. Let's not get more holier-than-thou than anyone needs to be. When the cybercafe owner is a pirate, the main loser (at least in India) is billy boy (unless cafes have illegal copies ;-) of Tally), but I doubt anyone on this list is going to weep copiously about that. Practically every other popular software application needed on Windows comes free, and is probably designed that way precisely because the vendor or developer wants it to be that way. All the cybercafe owner needs is a viable alternative (cost effective and workable) to M$ piracy for the present, I suspect. But this can only be determined at the meeting, not by the kind of occasional and casual guesswork that outsiders (ie, non-cafe operators on this list, including me) can perform. Is the list expected to grow (and exponentially, let's not fool ourselves about which technology we are enthused by, and the way it is growing) or is it intended to be confined to a cosy little closed group of narcissists? There will always be newbies, and there will always be people who only need to know the basics to get their work done, there will be people who know a lot and that is their work, and hopefully there will be lots of people who not only know a lot, but are willing to take that extra step to work and help others - at what cost, only an informed discussion can determine. I sincerely hope there will be people here on this list who are enthused by this chance. My suggestion that we look at a coalition of interests (hardware - which is to say assemblers - suppliers, maintenance specialists, network specialists, integrators, buyers and finally end-consumers) that can exchange views on services, service levels and structures around which such services can be effectively marketed. For instance (maybe it doesn't need a meeting to determine this, but somehow we humans do love being heard), maybe we can consider a formal or informal FOSS collective or guild, with rules or guidelines governing rates, SLAs and distro designs. Maybe it needs a small-scale business to do this. Why close our minds to the possibilities before they are even discussed? But why are there so many list cribbers who seem to think that new avenues of making money should not even be discussed before dismissing the concept right away? How about some lurkers throwing in their two bits? -- Vickram

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New Tux Requies Help
by Amit Bagadia 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Hi Fellow Penguins. This is Amit Bagadia. Am a final yr student from PVPP Coll of Engg. purusing Infomation Technology. I recently got inducted into the linuxers group. and no offense but most of the articles have been going way over my head. i'd like to know where do i begin? what should i go for? i duno What is BASH or Shell Scripting? I Dunno which distribution is good? whether fedora core or suse or mandrake or unbunto or the most recent one Xandros(hyped to throw windows replace in near future) the scenario here is like water water everywhere but not a drop to drink. there are hundreds of tuts available for Linux. but its truly confusing. i'd be grateful to find a good way to get around all this. plus i, being my college IEEE Secretary, am interested in organising a Linux Seminar or may be two. 1. To introduce my fellow students like me to Linux 2. To Tell them in Deep About Linux, esply About shell scripting. i'd wanna know if any of you would be interested in coming forward to conduct it. people interested can inform me. Awaiting your earliest reply Thanks. Regards. Amit Bagadia.

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cluster management tools
by Vihang 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Does anyone know debian based or redhat based cluster management tools. I know about rocks(3.3.3) RxC roll. But It requires a product key and all. Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Indiatimes at http://email.indiatimes.com Buy The Best In BOOKS at http://www.bestsellers.indiatimes.com Bid for for Air Tickets @ Re.1 on Air Sahara Flights. Just log on to http://airsahara.indiatimes.com and Bid Now!

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 18:56, Ashish Saboo wrote: > Terrence, > I for one certainly look forward for a " Real Education " & > this is the reason I am on this mailing list. Here I am My earlier mail has been rejected due to size and i dont have a copy. But in brief 1) we are talking and mixing multiple un related bussinesses and issues Training for end users and sys admins / service guys / installers Linux windows integration (u require highily skilled personnel) Social change Law 2) The individuals involved in piracy dont care. Their interests lie merely in making a fast buck. 3) Many in this posts seem to think that since piracy is the norm it has to be acceptable. 4) Many in this post think that people with poor tech skills are not to blame for their woes. The moment u want windows / linux integration u are escalating costs by orders of magnitude and reducing performance by an equal magnitude. However if you accept GNu/Linux machine with far greater functionality and stability as opposed to one with pirate stuff then things are completely viable. So Cyber cafe assoc describe your setup Get your members to accept that they will not use illegal software Tell us what is the SLA u want and the price u are willing to pay. Rony Bill, Crishna et all Tell us your SLA and your charges Tell the cybercafe boys what hardware he should buy or better still what hardware u will sell him. What backend services and systems you will provide. All the hot air about social issues, poverty, personal gain metrics, difficulty of using linux et all will evaporate and put things in the right perespective Which is - the cybercafe guy is happy making his living at somone elses expense and our list cribbers are happy pretending that they dont need skills. rgds jtd

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Linuxers January 2005