Linuxers May 2005

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

105 participants
254 discussions

RE: [ILUG-BOM] For the AHs
by Dinesh Joshi 23 May '05

23 May '05

>From: "Amol Hatwar" <amol(a)hatwar.org> >Why all this finger-pointing? I am an unhappy Windoze user thanks to some >stupid company project; and I have to put up with the suffering everyday. > >As for the Windows support et al. According to what their ads on TV say, >Windows actually helps "start anything"... but mark my words, it also makes >sure that whatever got started stops working. Don't believe me? Learn some >C >and have a look at the stolen code floating around on the Net. Guys why the perpetual Windoze bashing? I am a Linux user hooked to my Linux system(s) 24x7 but I don't think its right to bash Windoze *all* the time. M$ does lie, cheat and extorts money from the users of "genuine" windoze but cut it some slack! It's after all a fool proof OS which IMHO GNU/Linux will never be. GNU/Linux won't ever reach the "ease" of Windoze because it needs intelligent users :) But there *is* something that GNU/Linux must learn from Windoze that when you're targetting the OS for an office/workplace environment then it must work out of the box. The users must not spend hours hacking the kernel to get something working or go through lengthy compilation process just to get a program going. I am very happy to see that most newer distros have shown significant improvement in this regards. >Would you put diesel in a petrol-driven car? You just can't throw hardware >at GNU/Linux and expect things to work. Before you buy that new gizmo, make >sure you have a look at the hardware compatibility lists. GNU/Linux >delivers >what it promises; if there's something it can't deliver, it doesn't >promise. Yeah, it's just that hardware vendors must make a Windoze driver otherwise their hardware wont survive in the market. Just try using an old scanner with windoze xp and see how much trouble you have getting it to work. I have a scanner which has XP drivers and is supposed to work correctly(according to M$'s website) but it doesn't. I have to yet come across a piece of hardware which Linux promises will work and it doesn't. Atleast with GNU/Linux you may be able to modify a newer driver to get it to work with the old scanner but in windoze there is no hope! >Why complain that Windows allows me to do this, and GNU/Linux doesn't allow >me to do it? GNU/Linux and Windows are different; not clones. Besides that >you'd be just complaining "there's no sauce on my burger". GNU/Linux world >is a self-service world; make your own sauce and pour. Hmm...maybe Gandhi or someone influenced it :) GNU/Linux incorporates the principle of Swawalamban (Self service?) >And JTD, get a life; choose a better subject line next time :P Hehe, good one! Regards, Dinesh _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] A little piece of computer history for sale
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 23 May '05

23 May '05

On Sunday 22 May 2005 13:32, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Sunday 22 May 2005 9:24 am, Trevor Warren wrote: > > What did you run on this baby?. What were the > > applications one used those days. > 1986 - eiko pc, 4.xx mhz, 256 kb ram, one 360 kp floppy disk, green > monitor and hercules graphics card - used to run wordstar, quattro > pro and borland pascal. Wrote an online billing prog for a pub - > prog and data all on the 360 kb floppy Turbo pascal 6.0 and assembly for tsrs. We used that and some ISA boards to test SMPS, modems, interface to digital meters, grab images from line ccds for optical alignment of fax machines. My first home IBM pc was assembled in 85. I got the mobo from Golden Computer Plaza H.K. Pc XT 20Mb, 512+64K, Hercules Graphics 720 x 348 afair The PC turbo xt was a 8 Mhz 640Kb beast. It was the workhorse for the accounts dept. It ran dbase progs for inventory, accounting and payroll. The 286 16Mhz with a maths coprocessor was for the gearheads - myself and a few mech engineers - running autocad, circuitmaker (an excellent pcb layout package written by another bunch of gearheads in mumbai), pal and epld design packages. Our productivity jumped 100x inspite of the fact that you ran a EPLD compile or a Design rules check overnight. The accounts dept. would get all worked up knowing that the gearheads had a very fast machine, particularly when we would let the consultant who wrote the dbase-clipper stuff to run on our 286. I had "networked" the machines via the serial port - 19600bps - to cross backup files with 30 mtrs of cable. And a few months later 2400bps dialup Tarapur mumbai - with 10 disconnects for a single transfer - still beat the office boy with floppies. Oh the joy of the gearheads, accounts and purchase depts. Sob. The good old days. Funny that todays machines do pretty much the same thing a lot slower. Oh we do have better games than pacman and very nice viruses - "good morning joshi" was a bit boring. rgds jtd

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FLOSS, how the term came into being...
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 22 May '05

22 May '05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOSS Free/Libre Open Source Software >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Redirected from FLOSS The term Free/Libre/Open Source Software (FLOSS as different from FOSS) is a hybrid term for both free software and open source software, which are different terms for the same substance. "FLOSS" was created as a project acronym by Rishab Ghosh[1] (http://flossproject.org/people.htm), and popularised after the European Commission in June 2001 funded a study on the subject [2] (http://flossproject.org). In July 2002 a survey and study [3] (http://flossproject.org/report/) and a report of the workshop [4] (http://flossproject.org/workshop/) portion was produced and gave wider publicity for the term. The aim was to create a term which didn't alienate the advocates of either the free software philosophy, or the open source philosophy. It was hoped that such a term would ease friction between the two movements and thus improve cooperation. Indeed, Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software movement, has publicly recommended[5] (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/audio/rms-interview-edinburgh-040527.txt) the use of this term for those, especially in the research community, who wish to appear neutral. The L in FLOSS is meant to emphasise the "has freedom" meaning of the word "free" rather than "no charge" (gratis), while FOSS, for Free/Open Source Software, can give the impression that "Free" refers to "no charge". Some non-English speakers prefer this acronym as it can be translated to languages other than English: the F can stand for Frei in German while the L was explicitly drawn from Libre in French and Spanish, Livre in Portuguese, and Libero in Italian, and so on. At the end of 2004, FLOSS has been used as an English-language term of choice in official documents in a number of countries including South Africa[6] (http://www.naci.org.za/floss/index.html), Spain[7] (http://europa.eu.int/idabc/en/document/1637/470) and Brazil[8] (http://www.softwarelivre.org/news/1727). In Spanish and Portuguese, libre/livre software remains the term for free software, avoiding the English-language confusion that led to the creation of the term Open Source. Another term similar in aim to FLOSS is non-proprietary software. Legally speaking, however, only public domain software is non-proprietary. See also * Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) External links * Please read original The Lifecycle of Software Technology (http://www.moonviewscientific.com/essays/software_lifecycle.htm)) to find more. * Free/Libre and Open Source Software: Survey and Study FLOSS Workshop report (http://www.infonomics.nl/FLOSS/workshop/proceedings.htm), links to full study. * Free as in Education. Significance of the Free/Libre and Open Source Software for Developing Countries. (http://www.maailma.kaapeli.fi/FLOSSReport1.0.html) * Information for development www.i4donline.net (http://www.i4donline.net/floss/introduction.asp) * FOSS primers at International Open Source Network (IOSN) by UNDP (http://www.iosn.net/foss-primers) * FLOSS conference at National Institute of Technology Calicut, INDIA (http://glugc.nitc.ac.in/conference) * FOSS examples and adoption in countries

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] For the AHs
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 22 May '05

22 May '05

On Saturday 21 May 2005 20:46, Rony Bill wrote: > sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: > > Windose users are actually abetting criminals indirectly. And > > Installers particularly those on this list are doing so directly > > by installing the stuff after being fully aware of the problems. > > And the banks and financial institutions all running windose. We > > are lucky cause the value of the rupee is 1/47 of the dollar so > > for the same effort the criminal earns 47 times more targeting US > > and Eur. > > As I happen to still use windows and advise customers to buy Win XP > to get regular updates and updates for the updates, I am splitting > my reply in parts. Noted your reply.And the counters from the list too which do a thorough demolition job. However the point missed here is this - u are a prime target for a law suit. 1) If a vendor of any thing were to deliver equipment which, if used in it's default state, would cause grevious harm he would be sued to bankrupty. The defence of ignorance is no defence cause vendor should not have been selling the stuff in the first place if he is incompetent. 2) M$ would have absolved themselves of most things and have the money power to outlast most individuals. But you as a vendor are a sitting duck. 3) All other arguments about usability, compatability, default configs, etc. are irrelevant. It's like selling a car with no brakes. One can supply a set of brakes and instructions for installation but that would not protect you from a lawsuit unless u very clearly stated the fact that fitting brakes onto the vehicle is a very complex task, beyond the capabilities of most car users, and that post fitting of brakes is still likely to fail. Apprise your customer of these facts and see how many still opt for winwoes. It's only a matter of time before some vendor is going to get shafted. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] For the AHs
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 22 May '05

22 May '05

On Sunday 22 May 2005 09:51, Amol Hatwar wrote: > And JTD, get a life; choose a better subject line next time :P > Regards, > ah Ha Ha. You got me on that one. All ye on the list ah stands for Anmol Hatwar (as also AH i suppose). You are (er i am) forbidden from using ah or AH unless refering to AH er i mean Anmol. I was refering to the AHs not the AH - i mean the air heads - which i assure you Anmol is not. After clearing the air ahead I did agonize over several subject lines before my head got all aired. Are Windows users criminal conspirators? Windows os suppliers are in cahoots with the mafia Use windows and file for bankruptcy. Windows will attract lawsuits against you. A brief study on criminal elements in cyberspace - methodology and countermeasures. An introduction to cyber crime. How to get rich in cyber space. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] A little piece of computer history for sale
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 22 May '05

22 May '05

On Wednesday 18 May 2005 09:41, Trevor Warren wrote: > http://hardware.newsforge.com/hardware/05/05/17/1528245.shtml?tid=6 >8&tid=59 Talking of old pcs, I needed a few ttl ics and buffers to set right a communication system at a petrochem plant Sunday 3am. There were no devices available until i chanced upon an old pc. The mobo was dated 1988 and the cpu 1987. It was those horizontal boxes and weighed about 10 kgs. Inside was a 20MB harddrive, 5.25" fdd, 256 KB ram, cga graphics card, hdd/fdd card and a 286 16 MHz cpu. And several buffers and ttls. Tried booting it. But no luck as the onboard battery had leaked and corroded the pcb. I managed to desolder the ics i needed and get the communication system running. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] (OT)Linux Bazar shuts down
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 22 May '05

22 May '05

On Sunday 22 May 2005 11:31, Trevor Warren wrote: > > The same process applies to freesoftware. Free > > software companies rely on lowering the entry > > > barrier - ideally no barrier. Closed software > > > companies must affix a price to their product this > > cost is a balance > > between an entry barrier and profitability. The > > entry of free software > > has totally screwed this equilibrium. > > [snip] > > I do agree with the same and alogn with you have > seen the gradual metamorphisis but there are certain > views of yours where i beg to differ JTD. From a > business perspective the transition on this front as > you have mentioned has been very slow albeit steady. > Its growth is indeed highly important for the entire > ecosystem (closed-open) to flourish and for the > customer to have a choice in what he wants to buy. Unfortunately prop software vendors are continuosly erecting legal barriers to prevent individuals and small bussiness from entering the field in an attempt to shore up a doomed business plan i.e software distribution (this goes for open software too as the cd vendor case shows). The current spat on software patents is a case in point. As of now patents protect a product, not a generalised description of a method of achieving a task, which is what software actually is. One can write code in an infinite number of ways for doing a given task. Patenting software is one of the many causes dear to a prop company's heart and totally anthema to free software. Software in any case is more than adequately protected by copyrights. DRM is another. DMCA yet one more. All of these want to take away consumer and in many cases producer rights. And without exception it's the closed software companies actively supporting the S#$%. > In short gone are those days when vendors could shove > unsupported closed source applns/operating systems and > charge abnominable fees for continuing support. We now > see CTO's all across the country considering a mixture > of Open and Closed options across all horizontals and > verticals they play in. > > > Which has left > > the prop companies > > inside their stockade with a raging inferno outside. > > Only a matter of > > time before these companies are burnt to a crispy. > > > Each one is important for the others survival. I seriously doubt it. witness the complete disregard for standards, by deliberately breaking them and refusal to publish communication , file format and other docs which encapsulate user data. While a closed software business may exist it would be impossible for it to survive for any length of time. Free software continues to grow stronger without relying on crooked laws or hiding formats. closed software desperately requires bsd code and obfusication to just stay afloat. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] (OT)Linux Bazar shuts down
by Trevor Warren 22 May '05

22 May '05

> The same process applies to freesoftware. Free > software companies rely on lowering the entry > barrier - ideally no barrier. Closed software > companies must affix a price to their product this > cost is a balance > between an entry barrier and profitability. The > entry of free software > has totally screwed this equilibrium. [snip] I do agree with the same and alogn with you have seen the gradual metamorphisis but there are certain views of yours where i beg to differ JTD. From a business perspective the transition on this front as you have mentioned has been very slow albeit steady. Its growth is indeed highly important for the entire ecosystem (closed-open) to flourish and for the customer to have a choice in what he wants to buy. In short gone are those days when vendors could shove unsupported closed source applns/operating systems and charge abnominable fees for continuing support. We now see CTO's all across the country considering a mixture of Open and Closed options across all horizontals and verticals they play in. > Which has left > the prop companies > inside their stockade with a raging inferno outside. > Only a matter of > time before these companies are burnt to a crispy. [snip] My point is there is no "Single Open Source/Free Software Solution" that will serve all needs and the same is true for Close Source propreitary end-to-end stacks from MNC's across the world. In this day and age as the ilug-bom we should seek to work towards a harmonius ecosystem consisting of both Free Software/Open Source and Closed Source components. Probably one that fosters growth of such small classroom businesses based on sound business models. Be in terms of Venture Capital or possible helping intellectually support/stimulate peer groups that wll inturn mushroom into healthy business models. Each one is important for the others survival. No man lives as an island you see.The story of David v/s Goliath is indeed a fitting tribute to the FSF/OS movement and i pray it gives us the strength to continually mushroom into a great self sustaing movement. You indeed brought some good thoughts to bear with your wise words JTD. Trevor > > rgds > jtd > > > > -- > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > |------|____________________________________|------| ( >- / Scaling FreeSoftware & OpenSource \ -< ) /~\ / In the Enterprise \ /~\ | \) \ | www.fsf.org | www.opensource.org | / (/ | |_|_ \____________________________________/ _|_| Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] (OT)Linux Bazar shuts down
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 22 May '05

22 May '05

On Saturday 21 May 2005 19:19, Dinesh Joshi wrote: > >From: Ninad Bapat <freeninad(a)gmail.com> > > > >Hi > >I thought I had found a wonderful site in > >*www.linuxbazar.com<http://www.linuxbazar.com> > >* based in Banaglore from where I could order Linux Cd's of the > > latest distros and that too within week. > > > >*Today i was shocked when I visited there site to find that it has > > been shut down.* Gives you an idea of what suppliers of packaged software are up against, shorn of the legal barricade they have boxed themselves with. A services based industry requires widespread adoption of the service hence reducing costs of equipment on which the service rides increases revenues. Thus cellular service providers heavily subsidise handsets to reduce entry barriers. The customer does not care too much about the phone (except to the extent that branding drives him to care about goodies in the handset). The same process applies to freesoftware. Free software companies rely on lowering the entry barrier - ideally no barrier. Closed software companies must affix a price to their product this cost is a balance between an entry barrier and profitability. The entry of free software has totally screwed this equilibrium. Which has left the prop companies inside their stockade with a raging inferno outside. Only a matter of time before these companies are burnt to a crispy. rgds jtd

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[ot][commercial]Fwd: A leading GNU/Linux Systems house is expanding, looking for GNU/Linux engineers to join our team.
by Trevor Warren 22 May '05

22 May '05

FYI folks. Trevor --- Youhan Mubaraki <youhan(a)mazdatechnologies.com> wrote: > Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 16:03:14 -0700 > From: Youhan Mubaraki <youhan(a)mazdatechnologies.com> > To: trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com > CC: Youhan Mubaraki <youhan(a)mazdatechnologies.com> > Subject: Re: Mazda Technologies, A leading GNU/Linux > Systems house is expanding, > looking for GNU/Linux engineers to join our team. > > Trevor, > Also I would like someone from your LUG to start > contributing to the > FSF/ Gluster project. If they do I am willing to pay > them a stipend or > bring them onboard as part of the Mazda team just > for making > contributions to Gluster. They can remain in India, > I just want someone > local in India to be associated with Mazda > Technologies and the Gluster > project. > So spread the word, if you have any questions or > need clarification > please contact me at youhan(a)mazdatechnologies.com or > youhanma(a)yahoo.com > Thank You > Youhan Mubaraki > > Youhan Mubaraki wrote: > > > Hi Trevor, > > Please post this on your LUG website! > > Youhan > > > > > > Mazda Technologies, a leading Linux Systems house > in the Silicon > > Valley is looking for an experienced Linux > Engineer with the following > > skills: > > > >In order of Experience importance... > > > >GNU/Linux HPC/Clustering Expert > > > >GNU/Linux System/Network Administrator > > > >GNU/Linux Systems programmer > > > >GNU/Linux Kernel Hacker > > > >Candidate must be authorized to work in US, US > Citizens preferred, Must relocate to bay area if > from outside.Most important is the person's > capability to work on large clusters, > >have intimate knowledge on all types of Open Source > software and applications like OSCAR and ROCKS, > >be able load and tweak for performance optimization > all flavors of Free Operating systems like Redhat, > Suse, Debian, Free BSD etc. > >The right candidate should also have Network > Administration experience with Linux and have > through understanding of the kernel. > >Experience with Intel and AMD 64 Bit hardware a > must. > > > >Mazda Technologies works with top tier enterprise > customers and the Governments DOE labs and this > experience could be really enhance the right > candidates resume. > >Mazda Technologies is a fun and flexible > environment and with the right candidate we are > willing to consider a candidate that wants to work > part time as well. > > > >Please email me or call me at 925 699 4700 if you > or someone you know is Interested in this position. > > > >Youhan Mubaraki > > > >Vice President of Business Development > > > >Mazda Technologies > > > >www.mazdatechnologies.com > > > >Land Line: 925 558 2722 > > > >Cell: 925 699 4700 > > > >Fax: 924 605 4000 > > > >Toll Free 1 888 510 9898 > > > > > > > >Address > > > >11501 Dublin Blvd, > > > >Suite 200 > > > >Dublin, CA 94568 > > > |------|____________________________________|------| ( >- / Scaling FreeSoftware & OpenSource \ -< ) /~\ / In the Enterprise \ /~\ | \) \ | www.fsf.org | www.opensource.org | / (/ | |_|_ \____________________________________/ _|_| Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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Linuxers May 2005